What stats most important for HOF?

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

What stats do you think are the most important for voters who are voting for HOF Members ?



I was looking at some of the stats today and trying to make sense of them.



Walker 76.6% after 10 years

Jeter. 99.7% in first year



Walker Bave.313 OBP .400 SLG .565 OPS .965 War (baseball Ref 72.7)

Jeter Bave.310 OBP .377 SLG .440 OPS .817 War (baseball Red 72.4 )



I know you can do anything with stats , but I thought the above were very highly rated, so I was wondering why it took so long for Walker to be inducted.

The team(s) played for matter more than anything, IMO.

Jeter played a premium position on the biggest stage in baseball and excelled while walker played in relative obscurity in Montreal and Colorado.

How many HOF votes does Phil Rizzuto get had he spent his career outside of NY?

[packs]

Eye test is becoming more important I think. At least recently. Vlad and Walker's total career numbers may not scream HOF to people 50 years from now, but I saw them play and I knew what I was watching.

Bernie Williams probably won't ever have his case reexamined but I saw a HOFer everyday he was on the field too.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by packs

Eye test is becoming more important I think. At least recently. Vlad and Walker's total career numbers may not scream HOF to people 50 years from now, but I saw them play and I knew what I was watching.

Bernie Williams probably won't ever have his case reexamined but I saw a HOFer everyday he was on the field too.

I always believed in the eye test, you know when you are watching a great player.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

The team(s) played for matter more than anything, IMO.

Jeter played a premium position on the biggest stage in baseball and excelled while walker played in relative obscurity in Montreal and Colorado.

How many HOF votes does Phil Rizzuto get had he spent his career outside of NY?

I don't know about that. How do you explain Thurman Munson, Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams not being in, if team matters more than anything?

[bdk1976]

I don't think any of those three belong in, but guessing some/all might eventually make it in the way things are going - in no small part because of where they played. Hell, now that guys like Baines have been voted in, I don't see how the three you listed (not to mention scores of other good but not HOF players) are kept out moving forward via various committees, etc.

If Mattingly/Williams/Munson had all played in somewhere like Seattle or Oakland or Kansas City we wouldn't even be having his conversation!

[packs]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

I don't think any of those three belong in, but guessing some/all might eventually make it in the way things are going - in no small part because of where they played. Hell, now that guys like Baines have been voted in, I don't see how the three you listed (not to mention scores of other good but not HOF players) are kept out moving forward via various committees, etc.

If Mattingly/Williams/Munson had all played in somewhere like Seattle or Oakland or Kansas City we wouldn't even be having his conversation!

Mattingly played for the Yankees when the Yankees were terrible. What kind of boost does he get for playing in New York for horrible teams? He also happened to be the best first baseman and maybe even best all around player in his prime. Did that count for nothing?

Bernie Williams was a great guy to have on your postseason roster, but it's not like Curt Schilling's candidacy doesn't heavily rest on his postseason record. He didn't play for the Yankees.

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by packs

Mattingly played for the Yankees when the Yankees were terrible. What kind of boost does he get for playing in New York for horrible teams? He also happened to be the best first baseman and maybe even best all around player in his prime. Did that count for nothing?

Bernie Williams was a great guy to have on your postseason roster, but it's not like Curt Schilling's candidacy doesn't heavily rest on his postseason record. He didn't play for the Yankees.

Schilling isn’t getting voted in because he is a dipshit off the field nowadays.

Mattingly was a very good player - and will eventually get into the HOF. He already gets a boost from his NYY career as evidenced by even being in this discussion. Like I said we wouldn’t even be talking about him in the HOF had he played his career in a place like Cleveland.

Best all around player in his prime? I’ll have some of what you are smoking!

Lots of guys over the years who are great to have on a playoff roster yet are not HOF worthy. Bernie is indeed one of them.

[Majestic]

Always found the stat similarities interesting

Mattingly 7003 ab 2153 hits 222 hr 1099 rbi .307 avg 9 gold gloves
Puckett 7244 ab 2304 hits 207 hr 1085 rbi .318 avg 6 gold gloves

Played same time frame. Both careers cut short by physical ailments. Both very popular players. Both top 3 in MVP 3 times. Both led league in batting once. Both led league in RBI once. Puckett led league in hits 4 times to Mattingly's twice. Puckett has post season advantage while Mattingly has managerial career.

Seems like a very even career. Puckett was first ballot with 82% Mattingly never got more than 28%. Maybe voters prefer a more consistent career (Puckett was never bad)over a top heavy Mattingly's 5 great seasons and 8 mediocre/avg/bad seasons.

[Republicaninmass]

75% of the vote

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

Best all around player in his prime? I’ll have some of what you are smoking!

For once I'm smoking the same stuff as Packs. There was a period during Mattingly's career where I would have bet the house he was a shoe-in for the HOF. Then the injuries hit and his career ended quickly - too quickly. If he had pulled a Koufax or Jim Brown, he'd be in. Or we could subtract his best four years and replace them with twelve of his lesser years, for a total of twenty-two, and he'd get in as an 'almost great' via longevity, ala Phil Niekro, Bert Blyleven, Gaylord Perry or Don Sutton.