1951 Bowman Mantle PSA 7(OC) on PWCC tonight

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Ive heard and read over the years this is not always an accurate assessment. Holders have evolved over the years. However, if a standard card does not fit into a 2 1/2 X 3 1/2 holder, I do question that. They should be able to get that right.

What are others thoughts on this statement? I’d love it if it were that straightforward.

It's important to read my quote precisely:
"If you do nothing else, protect yourself and see how well the card you're interested in fits inside the holder."

My point wasn't "If it fits inside snugly, it's good," or "If it doesn't fit snugly, it's bad." (Besides other methods card doctors use) The point is to pay a helluva lot of attention to how well it fits and make your determination from there. For instance, two sets I am always looking at are 1972 Topps and 1962 Topps green tints. With the former, it would seem well over 98% of the cards (this is an invented statistic and not based on actual research) would/should basically touch all 4 sides of the holder, whereas a huuuuge percentage of '62 GT's are naturally short one way or both ways. So, in general, if I see a high grade 1972 card that's a bit short, I would most likely move on from it. The card 'should' fit nicely, so there might be some deception involved (people's opinions may vary). If a 1962 greenie is a little short, I would be much more open to buying it. Still hesitant, of course, but it's pretty obvious that there were all sorts of problems with the cutting of those cards way back when. But...if I follow my own logic, it could still be very problematic. Say a GT was originally 'normal' sized. A serious card doctor would know that the vast majority of them were cut short, so he could do a trim job and get away with it, because it would then look identical to many of the ones already out there. Ca-ching!!! And on and on it goes...

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

It's important to read my quote precisely:
"If you do nothing else, protect yourself and see how well the card you're interested in fits inside the holder."

My point wasn't "If it fits inside snugly, it's good," or "If it doesn't fit snugly, it's bad." (Besides other methods card doctors use) The point is to pay a helluva lot of attention to how well it fits and make your determination from there. For instance, two sets I am always looking at are 1972 Topps and 1962 Topps green tints. With the former, it would seem well over 98% of the cards (this is an invented statistic and not based on actual research) would/should basically touch all 4 sides of the holder, whereas a huuuuge percentage of '62 GT's are naturally short one way or both ways. So, in general, if I see a high grade 1972 card that's a bit short, I would most likely move on from it. The card 'should' fit nicely, so there might be some deception involved (people's opinions may vary). If a 1962 greenie is a little short, I would be much more open to buying it. Still hesitant, of course, but it's pretty obvious that there were all sorts of problems with the cutting of those cards way back when. But...if I follow my own logic, it could still be very problematic. Say a GT was originally 'normal' sized. A serious card doctor would know that the vast majority of them were cut short, so he could do a trim job and get away with it, because it would then look identical to many of the ones already out there. Ca-ching!!! And on and on it goes...

Ahhh, got it. I was trying to better understand your comment. Thanks for clarifying.