False Babe Ruth 500th Home Run Ticket - How can PSA date this ticket??????

[Shoeless Moe]

I'm thinking this is another case of who you know, and in this case the owner of this ticket has an in with PSA.

Unless I'm missing something how can this be pinpointed to that date?

Is there a Cleveland Indians Ticket Dating Guide out there?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Babe-Ruth-5...MAAOSwKhpd9m0X

[Shoeless Moe]

1929 Yankees, Boston Braves, and Cincinnati Reds home game tickets Grandstand seating on Ebay are all $1.00 for admission.

Cleveland charged 1.20?

or was that Cleveland President on the ticket a one year President?

[Steve D]

Alva Bradley was president of the Cleveland Indians from 1927 to 1946, when he sold the team to Bill Veeck.

In 1929, their 49th home date was Aug 11th against the Yankees. It was not their 49th home game, however, as they played seven home double-headers before that day.

So, the ticket COULD be for that game, but, the question remains, how to determine the exact year the ticket was issued.

Steve

[ooo-ribay]

PSA can do whatever they (you) want, for a price.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Steve D

In 1929, their 49th home date was Aug 11th against the Yankees. It was not their 49th home game, however, as they played seven home double-headers before that day.

......and those were not scheduled DH's, most were rain date makeups.

I count the 49th home game being on July 19th or 20th. Not even close to Aug 11. (I'm going by Baseball Reference).


If any schedule collectors have a '29 Indians schedule please chime in.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

One ticket would get you in for the doubleheader so if the 49th home date (as opposed to the 49th home game) was August 11th that makes sense. I have no idea about the year issue though.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

PSA can do whatever they (you) want, for a price.

Exactly!
We take your money, you get a slab.
Never mind that there is no way to verify it...

[ajenks3378]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

One ticket would get you in for the doubleheader so if the 49th home date (as opposed to the 49th home game) was August 11th that makes sense. I have no idea about the year issue though.

The 49 has nothing to do with a game number. Those tickets are numbered all over the map. Seen them up to 150+

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Steve D

In 1929, their 49th home date was Aug 11th against the Yankees. It was not their 49th home game, however, as they played seven home double-headers before that day.
Steve

49th home date? not really (well yah if you don't count rainouts).....when they did the tickets at the beginning of the season they just happened to know they would have 8 rainouts?????

If PSA went by the 49th home date not including rainout games logic they are complete idiots. Those rainout games were numbered prior to the season.

Again this is a case of the person who got that graded knowing some stooge at PSA.

[Steve D]

I just found the Cleveland Indians' 1929 home schedule printed in the 15 Feb 1929 edition of the Akron (OH) Beacon Journal. Here it is:

April
16, 17, 18, 19 - Detroit
20, 21, 22, 23 - Chicago

May
1, 2, 3 - St Louis
4, 5, 6 - Washington
7, 8, 9 - Boston
10, 11, 12 - Philadelphia
13, 14, 15 - New York
23, 24, 25, 26 - St Louis

June
16 - Philadelphia
19, 20, 22, 23 - Detroit

July
2, 3, 4 - Chicago
6, 7, 8, 9 - Boston
10, 11, 12, 13 - Washington
14, 15, 16, 17 - Philadelphia
18, 19, 20, 21 - New York

August
6, 7, 8 - Detroit
10, 11, 12, 13 - New York
14, 15, 17 - Philadelphia
18, 19, 20, 21 - Washington
22, 23, 24, 25 - Boston

September
2 - St Louis
24, 25, 26 - Chicago
28, 29 - St Louis

You'll note that there are 75 dates listed. Since teams played 154 games in a season, there were 77 home games; meaning there would seem to have been two scheduled doubleheaders for the Indians in 1929.

Based on this schedule, the Indians' 49th home date was July 19th against the Yankees.

Steve

[Shoeless Moe]

Steve GREAT detective work!

Just can't be believe PSA ignored rainouts, or more likely were paid to ignore them.

What a clown organization!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by ajenks3378

The 49 has nothing to do with a game number. Those tickets are numbered all over the map. Seen them up to 150+

I was taking other's premise and running with it.

[hcv123]

Call it to the attention of the #1 500HR ticket collector who has it listed on Ebay? Perhaps in the context of asking for additional substantiation of why he believes it is what PSA called it.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Call it to the attention of the #1 500HR ticket collector who has it listed on Ebay? Perhaps in the context of asking for additional substantiation of why he believes it is what PSA called it.

I emailed him earlier today, he has yet to reply.

[perezfan]

Good luck with that!

[Streetsideguy]

I see many of you have concerns regarding my 1929 Babe Ruth 500 HR ticket. I have owned the ticket since 2011 and it was owned by another ticket collector prior to that. I did some research as well regarding the ticket number. The one listed above by Steve D is incorrect. Here is the actual schedule based on the Baseball Almanac.

April
16 (Ticket 1), 17 (Ticket 2), 18 (Ticket 3), 19 (Ticket 4) - Detroit
22 (Ticket 5), 23 (Ticket 6) - Chicago

May
1 (Ticket 7) - St Louis Browns
4 (Ticket 8), 5 (Ticket (), 6 (Ticket 10) – Washington Senators
7 (Ticket 11), 8 (Ticket 12), 9 (Ticket 13) - Boston
10 (Ticket 14), 11 (Ticket 15),- Philadelphia
13 (Ticket 16), 15 (Ticket 17) - New York
23 (Ticket 18 DH), 23 (Ticket 18 DH), 24 (Ticket 19), 25 (Ticket 20), 26 (Ticket 21), 27 (Ticket 22) - St Louis

June
16 (Ticket 23) - Philadelphia
19 (Ticket 24), 20 (Ticket 25), 22 (Ticket 26), 23 (Ticket 27) - Detroit

July
2 (Ticket 28 DH), 2 (Ticket 28 DH) 3 (Ticket 29), 4 (Ticket 30 DH), 4 (Ticket 30 DH), 5 (Ticket 31) - Chicago
7 (Ticket 32 DH), 7 (Ticket 32 DH), 8 (Ticket 33),- Boston
10 (Ticket 34), 11 (Ticket 35), 12 (Ticket 36), 13 (Ticket 37) - Washington
14 (Ticket 38), 15 (Ticket 39 DH), 15 (Ticket 39 DH) 16 (Ticket 40), 17 (Ticket 41) - Philadelphia
19 (Ticket 42 DH), 19 (Ticket 42 DH), 20 (Ticket 43 DH), 20 (Ticket 43 DH), 21 (Ticket 44) - New York

August
6 (Ticket 45), 7 (Ticket 46), 8 (Ticket 47) - Detroit
10 (Ticket 48), 11 (Ticket 49 Babe Ruth’s 500 HR Game) , 12, 13 - New York
14, 15, 17 - Philadelphia
18, 19, 20, 21 - Washington
22, 23, 24, 25 - Boston

September
2 - St Louis
24, 25, 26 - Chicago
28, 29 - St Louis

If you have an issue with the ticket it would probably be better to ask questions, and not bash me on Ebay and NET54. I will discuss with PSA tomorrow and see if they have questions regarding the ticket.

Jason Weil

[Shoeless Moe]

My apologies for saying you the seller had an in with PSA if you bought this from someone else. Then that person did.

One example: April 21 game is not accounted for on your list.

It was a scheduled game.

Rescheduled for July 2, the July 2 game thus made into a DH. Thus one would be numbered for the April 21 original game and the 1st game of the DH for July2. It was not a scheduled DH. So you have to account for the April 21 game.

Same goes for the 5/2 game the 5/3 game and so on.

You are not accounting for the games that got rained out. They obviously were scheduled prior to the season and numbered as such.

Please let us know how/why you are not counting these as games.

[Shoeless Moe]

Also, who was the ticket collector you mentioned you got this from? That may help explain this.

Did that collector work at PSA at one time?

[RedsFan1941]

length of ownership has nothing to do with whether this is a ticket stub from babes 500 home run. you can have owned this ticket since the day the game was played and if the ticket wasn’t for the 500 game, nothing is going to change that

[megalimey]

let me go on the record first, I am a big advocate for PSA
and the overall great job they do
but this was slabbed back in the old days
(yes even now they do make mistakes now and then,

this ticket is totally bogus

President 1928-1946 no year ,how can you tell what year just because some one wrote on it and how convenient it was Babe Ruths 500th HR
here are the facts
it has Ticket Price for grandstand as $1.20 , however American League increased Grand Stand ticket prices from $1.10 (10% tax) to $1.20 in in the 1940's (1944 ) this has ( 20% tax)
this ticket Has 20 cent sales tax , however On May 29, 1928 a new Tax Law went into effect and the 10% tax was no Longer added to the Grandstand, Bleacher tickets. so no tax at all, let alone a 20% tax
this ended in 1933 , when it went back 10% tax till 1944
but ignoring those obvious known facts the most glaring error
Ticket Has 49 (home game 49 ) as Played on Aug 11th
when published Home Game schedule for Cleveland in 1929
shows Game 49 according to my count ,as being played on July 18th ( july 4 had two paid admission games so they are allocated two different numbers not even close FYI Aug 11th was Home 57 Game
had it been Game 49 Indians would have only played 65 Home games in 1929

I think owner of this ticket should reach out to PSA to see if they can offer some kind of Resolution

[Shoeless Moe]

Moral of the story.....

Be VERY VERY careful buying undated Ticket Stubs.

Don't assume the writing on a Ticket is accurate.

I've seen inaccurate info written on Ticket Stubs, and I'm sure they are still out there and will resurface eventually.

Do your homework and wouldn't hurt to have a 2nd party do some research as well to make sure you don't put down big bucks for a BAD item.


(Good teamwork all!)

[Streetsideguy]

Thanks for all the information. I have yet to hear back from PSA regarding this issue.

1. I don't see that there was a home game in Cleveland on 4/21/29 according to Baseball Almanac

2. I did reach out for a 2nd opinion on this ticket. PSA. They are supposed to be the experts on this type of thing and the ticket was already graded and approved by PSA so why would I think any different about the authenticity of this ticket.

3. I purchased the ticket from ticket collector Chris Corso in 2011. He purchased the ticket raw from collector Michael Jacobs who had purchased the ticket from collector Ken Fowler. Ken purchased from the original owner that attended the games in Cleveland.

4. I agree with Megalimey......I think owner of this ticket should reach out to PSA to see if they can offer some kind of Resolution

Jason

[mikehorne]

Originally Posted by ajenks3378

The 49 has nothing to do with a game number. Those tickets are numbered all over the map. Seen them up to 150+

The point made by ajenks3378 doesn’t get enough attention, but here are examples of what he’s talking about. The numbers can’t possibly refer to a game.

[Shoeless Moe]

I think for the most part the numbers DO refer to the games. Like the one is question here, 49, refers to home game 49 (prior to the season starting of course) not game 49 after rainouts.

Scott or David might be able to better speak to those funky numbers/letters on the ticket, but I think those are for makeup games. Games added due to rainouts or what have you, or even special event games. Figuring those out is nearly impossible.

[Shoeless Moe]

Also, I would not use Baseball Almanac, it doesn't show rainouts.

[mikehorne]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Also, I would not use Baseball Almanac, it doesn't show rainouts.

www.retrosheet.org > Data downloads > Schedules is a great resource and will show the original schedule (including scheduled DHs), postponed games, and makeup dates.

[Shoeless Moe]

Here is another error by PSA (so don't go by them either)

http://www.milehighcardco.com/1934_D...-LOT64125.aspx

Ticket is CLEARLY dated July 15.

However, the incident happened on July 13. See Wiki link or go to Baseball Reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Gehrig

https://www.baseball-reference.com/b...93407130.shtml

"On July 13, 1934, Gehrig suffered a "lumbago attack" and had to be assisted off the field. In the next day's away game, he was listed in the lineup as "shortstop", batting lead-off. In his first and only plate appearance, he singled and was promptly replaced by a pinch runner to rest his throbbing back, never taking the field. A&E's Biography speculated that this illness, which he also described as "a cold in his back", might have been the first symptom of his debilitating disease.[49]"

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by megalimey

let me go on the record first, I am a big advocate for PSA
and the overall great job they do
but this was slabbed back in the old days
(yes even now they do make mistakes now and then,

this ticket is totally bogus

President 1928-1946 no year ,how can you tell what year just because some one wrote on it and how convenient it was Babe Ruths 500th HR
here are the facts
it has Ticket Price for grandstand as $1.20 , however American League increased Grand Stand ticket prices from $1.10 (10% tax) to $1.20 in in the 1940's (1944 ) this has ( 20% tax)
this ticket Has 20 cent sales tax , however On May 29, 1928 a new Tax Law went into effect and the 10% tax was no Longer added to the Grandstand, Bleacher tickets. so no tax at all, let alone a 20% tax
this ended in 1933 , when it went back 10% tax till 1944
but ignoring those obvious known facts the most glaring error
Ticket Has 49 (home game 49 ) as Played on Aug 11th
when published Home Game schedule for Cleveland in 1929
shows Game 49 according to my count ,as being played on July 18th ( july 4 had two paid admission games so they are allocated two different numbers not even close FYI Aug 11th was Home 57 Game
had it been Game 49 Indians would have only played 65 Home games in 1929

I think owner of this ticket should reach out to PSA to see if they can offer some kind of Resolution

I can only imagine how hard this is to learn about. I hope you get full satisfaction from PSA - what if anything do they guarantee around stuff like this? Please post what resolution PSA comes to. It is one forum (unlike CU) where the truth always comes first.

[megalimey]

Originally Posted by mikehorne

www.retrosheet.org > Data downloads > Schedules is a great resource and will show the original schedule (including scheduled DHs), postponed games, and makeup dates.

here is the actual home game schedule for the Indians In 1929

as you can clearly see Home Game 49 was not played on Aug 11th
just count schedule games JULY 4th D/H was a two ticket game so allocate 2 numbers
April 16 was Game 1 Sept 29th was Game #77
so here is conclusive proof
see picture

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Streetsideguy

3. I purchased the ticket from ticket collector Chris Corso in 2011. He purchased the ticket raw from collector Michael Jacobs who had purchased the ticket from collector Ken Fowler. Ken purchased from the original owner that attended the games in Cleveland.

Who in this group got it graded by PSA?

[Streetsideguy]

I believe Chris Corso had the ticket graded after he purchased it raw from Michael Jacobs. Both felt the ticket was the 500th ticket as did PSA. That's what I know.

Jason Weil

[Shoeless Moe]

I do not know Chris Corso. Is he still a collector? Net54 member? Ebay ID?


Also, what did PSA say? Please let us know. I'm pretty sure they have rejected tickets stating they couldn't confirm the date based on writing on a ticket, yet they have in this instance.

[Streetsideguy]

I believe Chris Corso is still collecting. But not sure.
His Ebay ID: Stepuptotheplate
Don't know if he is a member of NET54. I really have not been in touch with him for the past nine years.

I have not heard back from PSA yet. Still awaiting correspondence from them.

Jason

[hcv123]

step up to the plate ebay listings

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by hcv123

step up to the plate ebay listings

Thanks, just messaged him, maybe he can shed some light on it.

[Shoeless Moe]

So earlier I messaged him and he messaged back right away. I then asked if he got this graded by PSA, and radio silence. 8 hours later still not a peep.

His silence says a lot.

Also, if you do a deep dive into his feedback years ago left for others you will see it littered with negative comments, so another red flag. Some of the replies from the other Ebayers start to add up and give a clearer picture:

Not open to a friendly discussion about his product.....

Ticket was not as described...miscut, but described as MINT by seller

Reply by yepbg (Jul-28-05 18:28):
Irresponsible bidder used feedback extortion and attempted to bribe me to not report him to eBay for non-payment.

Reply by theoldjudge (Apr-12-06 18:10):
1st Im hearing of it. Might have achieved something by contacting me. No brains.

Reply by mrwendy28 (Oct-20-02 09:55):
card was perfect was just trying to rip me off

Poor communications, never paid me, many follow ups made with no response WHY?

Reply by 26502616@deleted (Jan-01-01 00:00):
pretty sad, I send payment $1.00 and he keeps it and the card 1 freakin dollar?

DOUBLE NEGATIVE--SIMPLY A SORE (0) EBAYER WHO DIDN'T LIKE TO BE CANCELLED-SORRY

NO communications, no follow up, poor business, KEEP THE CARD!!! NEGATIVE

Reply by 9217452@deleted (Jan-01-01 00:00):
As you can tell this person was suspened from EBAY for his illegal dealings !!!!

Reply by 9217452@deleted (Jan-01-01 00:00):
This guy had shill bids on his auction so I gave him a neutral,He's getting back


So doubtful he will reply at this point and guessing I know why. Now its possible I'm completely wrong and I will amend this if he shows me otherwise, but if I'm a buyer and see all these negatives on a sellers account, to me that's a red flag and I'd proceed with extreme caution or more then likely avoid.

But I believe another piece of the puzzle has fallen into place.

[earlywynnfan]

Any update on this? I see it's still listed for sale.