The 'Modern Era' Ballot: Who You Got?

[Touch'EmAll]

A Hall of Famer should be easily recognizable as unquestionably the top 1 or 2 players at a particular position. Y'kinow - a guy that is an all-star most every year for quite a while. Someone who is at least to some minor degree in the discussion to garner regular MVP votes. Someone when you mention their name to a casual baseball fan would reply, "oh, yeah, that guy was really really good." Most importantly, I am looking at players that was actually Famous - its called the Hall of Fame, is it not. Famous for their ultra high talents on the ballfield. Sorry to be a buzz-kill to the "on the fence" guys, but they were exactly that...on the fence guys...not HOF'ers. A player could be genuinely famous for a limited time due to other factors, but none the less truly Famous. I realize some of you are more lenient, and thats ok. But for me I want Famous, someone who raises eyebrows like Wow ! Look at it this way, as a kid collecting cards way back, when I would get a star players card, I was one very happy camper (Seaver, Ryan, Reggie, Bench, Schmidt, Carew type guys). Did y'all WooHoo do the skip dance when you got a Lou Whitaker, Ted Simmons, Harold Baines, Louie Tiant, Tommy John type card?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

A Hall of Famer should be easily recognizable as unquestionably the top 1 or 2 players at a particular position. Y'kinow - a guy that is an all-star most every year for quite a while. Someone who is at least to some minor degree in the discussion to garner regular MVP votes. Someone when you mention their name to a casual baseball fan would reply, "oh, yeah, that guy was really really good." Most importantly, I am looking at players that was actually Famous - its called the Hall of Fame, is it not. Famous for their ultra high talents on the ballfield. Sorry to be a buzz-kill to the "on the fence" guys, but they were exactly that...on the fence guys...not HOF'ers. A player could be genuinely famous for a limited time due to other factors, but none the less truly Famous. I realize some of you are more lenient, and thats ok. But for me I want Famous, someone who raises eyebrows like Wow ! Look at it this way, as a kid collecting cards way back, when I would get a star players card, I was one very happy camper (Seaver, Ryan, Reggie, Bench, Schmidt, Carew type guys). Did y'all WooHoo do the skip dance when you got a Lou Whitaker, Ted Simmons, Harold Baines, Louie Tiant, Tommy John type card?

Murphy, Mattingly, Munson, Parker and Garvey were all "star players cards" at their peak. They all won MVPs (Murphy 2). Parker 6 top 10 MVPs, Garvey 5, Mattingly and Murphy 4 consecutive top 10s, Munson 3.

[Touch'EmAll]

I will go back and look at stats, but yeah, if Mattingly, Munson, Parker & Garvey won MVP's and were consistent All-Stars, ok I could go for letting them in. How about Whitaker, Ted Simmons, Baines, Tiant & Tommy John - were they also MVP winners (or at least top 3) consistent All-Star for years?

[G1911]

I wouldn't have voted for anyone on the ballot, but all of them are better picks than Baines. I think Garvey would make a very bad selection, but the rest would not lower the standards of the hall or be poor picks, all are just narrowly on the "not quite" line for me.

There are several others, like Pinson, Oliva and Tiant, that could easily fall on either side of the line. Kaat, Vida Blue, McGriff, Dick Allen.

The two that seem to clearly belong to me, who have fallen off the writers ballot, are Minoso and Hodges. Hodges is, or is almost, a hall of famer as a 1st baseman, and after factoring in that he was also a great manager who led the Mets to the WS, he should make it easily just as Joe Torre did. Minoso is a no-brainer in my book.

On the Pre-War side, there are many other borderline guys who could fall either way. Dahlen seems to be the clearly deserving choice, to me.

Ross Barnes and Jim Creighton seem to me the most egregious examples of a players not selected, and with the current ruleset, will not ever be selected.

[clydepepper]

[QUOTE=G1911;1940171]I wouldn't have voted for anyone on the ballot, but all of them are better picks than Baines. I think Garvey would make a very bad selection, but the rest would not lower the standards of the hall or be poor picks, all are just narrowly on the "not quite" line for me.

There are several others, like Pinson, Oliva and Tiant, that could easily fall on either side of the line. Kaat, Vida Blue, McGriff, Dick Allen.

The two that seem to clearly belong to me, who have fallen off the writers ballot, are Minoso and Hodges. Hodges is, or is almost, a hall of famer as a 1st baseman, and after factoring in that he was also a great manager who led the Mets to the WS, he should make it easily just as Joe Torre did. Minoso is a no-brainer in my book.

On the Pre-War side, there are many other borderline guys who could fall either way. Dahlen seems to be the clearly deserving choice, to me.

Ross Barnes and Jim Creighton seem to me the most egregious examples of a players not selected, and with the current ruleset, will not ever be selected.[/QUOTE]


...and Dummy Hoy!

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

A Hall of Famer should be easily recognizable as unquestionably the top 1 or 2 players at a particular position. Y'kinow - a guy that is an all-star most every year for quite a while. Someone who is at least to some minor degree in the discussion to garner regular MVP votes. Someone when you mention their name to a casual baseball fan would reply, "oh, yeah, that guy was really really good." Most importantly, I am looking at players that was actually Famous. Look at it this way, as a kid collecting cards way back, when I would get a star players card, I was one very happy camper (Seaver, Ryan, Reggie, Bench, Schmidt, Carew type guys). Did y'all WooHoo do the skip dance when you got a Lou Whitaker, Ted Simmons, Harold Baines, Louie Tiant, Tommy John type card?

Not sure I agree with the “famous” test or guys like Valenzuela and Gooden and Marge Schott get in (yes i said guys).

That said, I collected cards as a kid during the time Simmons was in his prime. I would buy a box of cards and sort out the stars who I thought would be HOF candidates for keeping separate and putting into sheets/binders. Sometimes I was wrong about a guy and ended up with a lot of guys who ended up with just pretty good careers like Murphy and Garvey. But never did I sort out and set aside a Ted Simmons card, for what that’s worth. In his day he wasn’t regarded in that conversation.

I wasn’t a kid when Allie Reynolds played and I know the WAR isn’t there but he should be in.

[Touch'EmAll]

If you read my post, a HOF'er is a combination of factors, yes, famous being one of several, not only criteria.