Slightly OT - 2020 Modern Baseball Era HOF Ballot

kevinlenane · #1 12-10-2019, 11:32 AM

I'm still holding out hopeless hope for the VetCom to realize that if Phil Rizzuto deserves to be there - than Dom Dimaggio needs to be there more.

triwak · #2 12-11-2019, 03:23 PM

Ken Harrelson wins the Frick Broadcaster's award. As a kid, I always found his 1971 Topps card hysterical! And someone please tell me, that this Jeter rookie card is worth $140,000!!

Tabe · #3 12-11-2019, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triwak

Ken Harrelson wins the Frick Broadcaster's award.

Good grief. That's worse than the Baines selection. Talk about rewarding longevity over talent.

RCMcKenzie · #4 12-11-2019, 06:34 PM

There is a Dave Parker documentary coming up on MLB t.v. I think tomorrow night. Check your local listings.

I know I always set his cards aside when I was opening packs in the 70's...very surprised to see he got the fewest votes in this poll.

triwak · #5 12-12-2019, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

Good grief. That's worse than the Baines selection. Talk about rewarding longevity over talent.

Chris, Ken Harrelson is only being HONORED with the Broadcaster's award. Most of those honorees never played the game, but he did of course. He is NOT being INDUCTED into the actual Hall of Fame.

ejharrington · #6 12-12-2019, 05:25 AM

Keith Hernandez snubbed again. He is the most underrated player in MLB history.

mr2686 · #7 12-12-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Keith Hernandez snubbed again. He is the most underrated player in MLB history.

Possibly one of the reasons for the snub, along with Dave Parker, was their part in the 1985 Pittsburgh drug trials. I guess you had to have stats like Tim Raines to get around that.

OT - I was looking at Hernandez's fielding record and saw he won 11 straight Gold Gloves (very impressive...hadn't remembered he won that many), and then looked at more recent 1b gg winners. Can someone explain to me how Eric Hosmer can win GG's in the American league, and one in 2017, then come to the Padres in 2018 and have almost identical fielding stats as 2017 (and slightly better than the Rizzo and Freeman (they tied for the 2018 GG) and not win in 2018? What?...do they just put names in a hat? LOL

parker1b2 · #8 12-12-2019, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2686

Possibly one of the reasons for the snub, along with Dave Parker, was their part in the 1985 Pittsburgh drug trials. I guess you had to have stats like Tim Raines to get around that.

OT - I was looking at Hernandez's fielding record and saw he won 11 straight Gold Gloves (very impressive...hadn't remembered he won that many), and then looked at more recent 1b gg winners. Can someone explain to me how Eric Hosmer can win GG's in the American league, and one in 2017, then come to the Padres in 2018 and have almost identical fielding stats as 2017 (and slightly better than the Rizzo and Freeman (they tied for the 2018 GG) and not win in 2018? What?...do they just put names in a hat? LOL

Rafael Palmeiro won the AL 1st Baseman Gold Glove Award in 1999 playing 28 games at 1B and 128 as a DH.

Tabe · #9 12-12-2019, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Keith Hernandez snubbed again. He is the most underrated player in MLB history.

He has no case. A 1B with no power who hit under .300? Would you vote for John Olerud, who was better offensively and 98% defensively? Of course not.

ejharrington · #10 12-13-2019, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

He has no case. A 1B with no power who hit under .300? Would you vote for John Olerud, who was better offensively and 98% defensively? Of course not.

He has a GREAT case. A five time All Star, a batting champion, an MVP, eleven Gold Gloves, and ist baseman for two different World Championship teams. A little known fact, but he also is the single season and all-time leader in Game Winning RBIs, which is no longer tracked.

With respect to advanced sabermetrics (i.e., JAWS, WAR), the only retired first baseman that ranks higher than him not in the HOF (other than PED users Rafael Palmeiro and Mark McGuire) is Todd Helton and that is almost a dead heat. Of the 21 first basemen in the HOF, Hernandez ranks higher than Hank Greenberg, George Sisler, Harmon Killebrew, Jake Beckley, Tony Perez, Orlando Cepeda, Frank Chance. Jim Bottomley, and High Pockets Kelly.

Also, with respect to WAR, Defensive WAR is always being tweaked and as it stands right now, Hernandez gets virtually no credit for his defense. Anyone who watched him play knows his defense saved a lot of runs over the years. It�s possible his WAR will increase as improvements are made to the defensive calculations.

More anecdotally, I watched most of the Mets games from 1983-1987 and I always considered him the most valuable Met based on the eye test.

As for Olerud, he is borderline and I wouldn�t vote for him but there are many worse players in the HOF then him.

Tabe · #11 12-12-2019, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triwak

Chris, Ken Harrelson is only being HONORED with the Broadcaster's award. Most of those honorees never played the game, but he did of course. He is NOT being INDUCTED into the actual Hall of Fame.

Right. But it's still rewarding longevity. Harrelson is absolutely awful and always has been.

mr2686 · #12 12-12-2019, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe

Right. But it's still rewarding longevity. Harrelson is absolutely awful and always has been.

You don't have to be great, just colorful...just like Jerry Coleman.

Tabe · #13 12-12-2019, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2686

You don't have to be great, just colorful...just like Jerry Coleman.

Can we at least aim for not being the worst in the sport your entire career?

topcat61 · #14 12-16-2019, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

I'm still holding out hopeless hope for the VetCom to realize that if Phil Rizzuto deserves to be there - than Dom Dimaggio needs to be there more.

I agree. Dome was overshadowed during his career and most of this life because of this brother Joe. How fair is that? I'ma little bias when it comes to Dom being from Massachusetts, but he also lost time from serving in the Navy.

Tabe · #15 12-16-2019, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcat61

I agree. Dome was overshadowed during his career and most of this life because of this brother Joe. How fair is that? I'ma little bias when it comes to Dom being from Massachusetts, but he also lost time from serving in the Navy.

If we add every guy who ever played that's better than Rizzuto, we'll end up with hundreds of guys that don't belong in the Hall, Dom Dimaggio among them.

JollyElm · #16 12-16-2019, 05:55 PM

Scooter was the wildly popular, wacky voice of the Yankees for seemingly 100 years. Without question, that was a (I would say HUGE) part of the reasoning for his enshrinement, player statistics aside.

mr2686 · #17 12-16-2019, 10:37 PM

To me there's two schools of thought on players like Rizzuto and Reese being in the HOF. One is there overall numbers are not there. The other is that they were playing a tough position during a tough era when sliding hard in to the shortstop was the norm, and they were still there helping their teams get to the World Series almost every year. With that said, and with the Vet Committee voters voting them in, then why wouldn't they in turn vote in Bert Campaneris and Dave Concepcion? Different era, but same circumstances in my book.

perezfan · #18 12-17-2019, 02:57 AM

Because neither of them played in New York?

View Poll Results: Who should be voted into the Hall?
Dwight Evans	18	21.95%
Steve Garvey	13	15.85%
Tommy John	24	29.27%
Don Mattingly	17	20.73%
Marvin Miller	25	30.49%
Thurmon Munson	16	19.51%
Dale Murphy	25	30.49%
Dave Parker	11	13.41%
Ted Simmons	32	39.02%
Lou Whitaker	50	60.98%
NON of the above	9	10.98%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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