Slightly OT - 2020 Modern Baseball Era HOF Ballot

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by packs

If it's chicken or the egg and Miller's candidacy relies on the egg, you don't get there without Flood. He is the contributor, not Miller.

It wasn't just Curt Flood. It was Catfish Hunter, Andy Messersmith, Dave McNally and several others. The only common denominator was Marvin Miller.

Curt Flood played a part in Marvin Miller's success (just like Tommy John played a part in Dr. Frank Jobe's success), but Miller would've abolished the reserve clause if Curt Flood never played baseball.

[packs]

That is just not true. It was Flood v Kuhn, not anyone else. Not one active player (not Hunter, not Messersmith, not McNally or anyone else) attended the trial or testified during it. The Curt Flood Act was passed in 1998. It was not called the Marvin Miller Act or named after anyone else.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Flood lost the case, don't forget.

Do you know who did testify for him?

[packs]

I do, but nobody is in that room without him. The modern 10/5 rule is also referred to as the Curt Flood rule. So again, it seems as though he played just as significant a role as anybody in abolishing the reserve clause. I don't have a problem with Miller getting in because of it, but it takes two.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jackie Robinson, Hank Greenberg, and Bill Veeck testified for him.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jackie Robinson, Hank Greenberg, and Bill Veeck testified for him.

All of whom are HOFers. It just seems to me like baseball isn't done keeping him out of the club, even all these years later.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by packs

I do, but nobody is in that room without him. The modern 10/5 rule is also referred to as the Curt Flood rule. So again, it seems as though he played just as significant a role as anybody in abolishing the reserve clause. I don't have a problem with Miller getting in because of it, but it takes two.

Flood played a roll, but to say that without Curt Flood there would be no Marvin Miller isn't true in my opinion.

In 1974, Miller encouraged two pitchers Andy Messersmith of the Los Angeles Dodgers and Dave McNally of the Baltimore Orioles to play out the succeeding year without signing a contract. After the year had elapsed, both players filed a grievance arbitration. The ensuing Seitz decision declared that both players had fulfilled their contractual obligations and had no further legal ties to their ballclubs. This effectively eradicated the reserve clause and ushered in free agency.