The 'Modern Era' Ballot: Who You Got?

[packs]

I'm not picking up on the 50 WAR thing either. It seems like that's just a coincidence. Simmons had 50 WAR but it took him 21 years to do that. Munson only played 11 seasons, finished with a WAR of 46 and people think he's not even close to the Hall.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not picking up on the 50 WAR thing either. It seems like that's just a coincidence. Simmons had 50 WAR but it took him 21 years to do that. Munson only played 11 seasons, finished with a WAR of 46 and people think he's not even close to the Hall.

Bench had 75. I would say he was the man, not Simmons.

[packs]

I just can't figure it out. Even Simmons' defense was league average. His caught stealing percentage and fielding percentages are both exactly league average. He's got more walks than strike outs and his career on base is still below 350. How is he not only one of the greatest players of all time but also the best hitting catcher of his era?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I just can't figure it out. Even Simmons' defense was league average. His caught stealing percentage and fielding percentages are both exactly league average. He's got more walks than strike outs and his career on base is still below 350. How is he not only one of the greatest players of all time but also the best hitting catcher of his era?

Carter and Fisk were better too.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

I just can't figure it out. Even Simmons' defense was league average. His caught stealing percentage and fielding percentages are both exactly league average. He's got more walks than strike outs and his career on base is still below 350. How is he not only one of the greatest players of all time but also the best hitting catcher of his era?

Easy folks...Harold needs company.


.

[mr2686]

I'm old school, and Johnny Bench is one of my all time favorite players...best catcher of all time in my opinion as well. With that said, Bench was a "slugger" more than a hitter. You can take all the new metric WAR this and that, and that's fine, but Simmons was a better "hitter". Simmons hit over .300 seven times and had more BB's than K's. All I can say is that you try catching 1771 games (those are the games he played catcher, not just played) and still have a career .285 avg. Too many people lump catchers with other position players, and that's a shame because it's the toughest position out there...and comparing Simmons with Baines is just wrong on so many levels.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by mr2686

I'm old school, and Johnny Bench is one of my all time favorite players...best catcher of all time in my opinion as well. With that said, Bench was a "slugger" more than a hitter. You can take all the new metric WAR this and that, and that's fine, but Simmons was a better "hitter". Simmons hit over .300 seven times and had more BB's than K's. All I can say is that you try catching 1771 games (those are the games he played catcher, not just played) and still have a career .285 avg. Too many people lump catchers with other position players, and that's a shame because it's the toughest position out there...and comparing Simmons with Baines is just wrong on so many levels.

Mike - no slight intended. I was trying to lighten the discussion with a little humor.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Mike - no slight intended. I was trying to lighten the discussion with a little humor.

Yeah, that's what I figured but I forgot to put a funny emoji at the end of mine. It's all good. It's just that there's a real obvious gorge between the people that want only Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig etc in the hall, and the people that are more for the best of an era. Obviously there has to be a happy medium...I mean, it is called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of only the freakishly talented.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by mr2686

I'm old school, and Johnny Bench is one of my all time favorite players...best catcher of all time in my opinion as well. With that said, Bench was a "slugger" more than a hitter. You can take all the new metric WAR this and that, and that's fine, but Simmons was a better "hitter". Simmons hit over .300 seven times and had more BB's than K's. All I can say is that you try catching 1771 games (those are the games he played catcher, not just played) and still have a career .285 avg. Too many people lump catchers with other position players, and that's a shame because it's the toughest position out there...and comparing Simmons with Baines is just wrong on so many levels.

Bench had an OPS+ of 126, Simmons 118. If you are going strictly by batting average, Munson was better, so was Manny Sanguillen. I am not aware of any metric that says Simmons was the best hitting catcher of his era.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Doesn't hitting include power?