PWCC Auction Ending Tonight - Interesting Results

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by edhans

Not to mention doing bulk submissions to PSA.

I don't trim my cards. I don't add color to my cards. Let's speak hypothetically. Because there are criminals living in my town, am I supposed to move?? Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't trim my cards. I don't add color to my cars. Because there are criminals living in my town, am I supposed to move?? Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

People are nice enough to leave your silly thread alone you should do the same.

Do you support those criminals like you support PSA? Maybe you should pull your head out of the sand and see PSA is part of the problem and people like you who keep submitting to them are also part of the problem.

[bobbyw8469]

I never told Gary Moser to trim cards and make millions. Meanwhile, I am struggling to make $5-$10 flipping a card. Yet I am supposed to stop submitting my raw cards to PSA because of what Gary Moser did? The soapbox mentality of some of you get old.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I never told Gary Moser to trim cards and make millions. Meanwhile, I am struggling to make $5-$10 flipping a card. Yet I am supposed to stop submitting my raw cards to PSA because of what Gary Moser did? The soapbox mentality of some of you get old.

No, not "because of what Gary Moser did." Not at all. You stop submitting to PSA because of what PSA is accused of doing.

The point is that 'we', the community, not the lawyers, the courts or the FBI, can collectively decide the outcome of this by exercising our ability to choose who we want to deal with and who we don't.

It don't always agree with the reasoning or outcome, but this is happening everywhere we turn today. The press has even coined a term for it: 'Cancel Culture'.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

No, not "because of what Gary Moser did." Not at all. You stop submitting to PSA because of what PSA is accused of doing.

The point is that 'we', the community, not the lawyers, the courts or the FBI, can collectively decide the outcome of this by exercising our ability to choose who we want to deal with and who we don't.

It don't always agree with the reasoning or outcome, but this is happening everywhere we turn today. The press has even coined a term for it: 'Cancel Culture'.

The press itself has become 'Cancer Culture'

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

People are nice enough to leave your silly thread alone you should do the same.

Do you support those criminals like you support PSA? Maybe you should pull your head out of the sand and see PSA is part of the problem and people like you who keep submitting to them are also part of the problem.

I wonder how many would be happy to see people supporting/buying from drug dealers in their neighborhood?
With that comes gun crime, B&E's, robberies and a whole host of other issues that just keeps snowballing over and over again.

It might not be the proper analogy, but one should get the idea, I would think?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by irv

I wonder how many would be happy to see people supporting/buying from drug dealers in their neighborhood?
With that comes gun crime, B&E's, robberies and a whole host of other issues that just keeps snowballing over and over again.

It might not be the proper analogy, but one should get the idea, I would think?

No, it's actually very good analogy...

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

No, it's actually very good analogy...

It's actually a terrible analogy. You are comparing a card grader to a drug dealer. Think about that for a moment.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I don't trim my cards. I don't add color to my cards. Let's speak hypothetically. Because there are criminals living in my town, am I supposed to move?? Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

I agree with you on many aspects but let this thread be about bashing the bad apples lol you’re not one of them.
I have nothing against you for submitting to PSA I don’t think you’re the problem one bit :-)

My points in my previous post are direct,
to the point, and exactly what it is. That’s all I don’t begrudge anyone.

[pokerplyr80]

The attacks directed at Bobby are ridiculous. There are only 3 grading companies and they're all part of this scandal. Until someone decides to start a new company they're all we have. Many collectors, myself included, aren't going to start only buying raw cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The attacks directed at Bobby are ridiculous. There are only 3 grading companies and they're all part of this scandal. Until someone decides to start a new company they're all we have. Many collectors, myself included, aren't going to start only buying raw cards.

I dont agree with how bobby handles things in a lot of other areas for a number of reasons but in terms of submitting to PSA, attacking him for submitting to PSA is silly. Of course he and anyone who doesnt want to lose their shirt will submit to them. Unless others are going to pay our mortgages and kids tuition etc.

At least at this point, it is my understanding there have been no arrests and again, zero _________ (im sure you can fill in the blank) against PSA on this issue. (again correct me if i am wrong)

[Touch'EmAll]

Cards that PWCC has sold over the last few years are starting to show up elsewhere for sale. Upon looking at sales history of a particular card REA has up for auction, it was last sold by PWCC. What are we going to do? Heck if I know. For now, not bid on any PWCC auctions. But what about others sold by PWCC that are filtering out elsewhere? Hopefully, the powers that be get on the moral bandwagon and be extra careful from now on - probably the best that can realistically be done at this point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Cards that PWCC has sold over the last few years are starting to show up elsewhere for sale. Upon looking at sales history of a particular card REA has up for auction, it was last sold by PWCC. What are we going to do? Heck if I know. For now, not bid on any PWCC auctions. But what about others sold by PWCC that are filtering out elsewhere? Hopefully, the powers that be get on the moral bandwagon and be extra careful from now on - probably the best that can realistically be done at this point.

PWCC = tip of iceberg.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Some of you really need to get off the holier than thou attitude.

It's not a matter of holiness, Bobby. It's about principles. Your continued support of this company sends the message that their aiding and abetting the fraud being perpetrated on the hobby, not to mention the denial thereof, is a perfectly acceptable business practice.

[JackW]

Originally Posted by edhans

It's not a matter of holiness, Bobby. It's about principles. Your continued support of this company sends the message that their aiding and abetting the fraud being perpetrated on the hobby, not to mention the denial thereof, is a perfectly acceptable business practice.

Well said, Ed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by edhans

It's not a matter of holiness, Bobby. It's about principles. Your continued support of this company sends the message that their aiding and abetting the fraud being perpetrated on the hobby, not to mention the denial thereof, is a perfectly acceptable business practice.

Do you object to REA, Heritage, and every other auction house continuing to sell PSA graded cards?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do you object to REA, Heritage, and every other auction house continuing to sell PSA graded cards?

There's a difference between selling cards that are already slabbed, and continuing to send massive submissions to a known corrupt entity. The latter is far worse, IMO.

I do believe that the large auction houses should do more research to identify potentially tainted cards and not rely solely on the slab. I also believe they should ban consignments from known card doctors and questionable submitters.

I also believe (when a tainted card is outed) that they should reveal the names of the consignors... both to the Feds and publicly. These people need to be called out, similar to how auction houses publicly identify reneging bidders. Why they continue to protect criminal submitters/consignors is beyond me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

There's a difference between selling cards that are already slabbed, and continuing to send massive submissions to a known corrupt entity. The latter is far worse, IMO.

I do believe that the large auction houses should do more research to identify potentially tainted cards and not rely solely on the slab. I also believe they should ban consignments from known card doctors and questionable submitters.

I also believe (when a tainted card is outed) that they should reveal the names of the consignors... both to the Feds and publicly. These people need to be called out, similar to how auction houses publicly identify reneging bidders. Why they continue to protect criminal submitters/consignors is beyond me.

So dealers whose livelihood depends on submitting cards should stop, and they (and their families) should take a major financial hit?

What's the difference, by the way? Selling slabbed card also perpetuates the system, keeps the cycle going.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So dealers whose livelihood depends on submitting cards should stop, and they (and their families) should take a major financial hit?

What's the difference, by the way? Selling slabbed card also perpetuates the system, keeps the cycle going.

Regarding the question in bold...

Yes! If they stopped submitting to this particular enterprise, another more ethical competitor would inevitably surface. Sometimes you need to actually take a stand to make things better.

I am sure there were quite a few honest employees at Enron who took a similar financial hit (to name just one other corrupt company). Sometimes temporary setbacks need to happen for the greater good to prevail.

So my answer is a resounding YES.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Regarding the question in bold...

Yes! If they stopped submitting to this particular enterprise, another more ethical competitor would inevitably surface. Sometimes you need to actually take a stand to make things better.

I am sure there were quite a few honest employees at Enron who took a similar financial hit (to name just one other corrupt company). Sometimes temporary setbacks need to happen for the greater good to prevail.

So my answer is a resounding YES.

So honest people and their families should suffer because PSA is incompetent/corrupt? Sorry, I am not with you on this one.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's the difference, by the way? Selling slabbed card also perpetuates the system, keeps the cycle going.

PSA only makes money when cards are submitted to them for (re)grading. That's the difference.

A card is what it is, whether it is raw, in a PSA slab or in a penny sleeve. And that holds whether it is altered or not. I think we are now realizing that the PSA premium is not all that we (collectively) thought it was.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

PSA only makes money when cards are submitted to them for (re)grading. That's the difference.

A card is what it is, whether it is raw, in a PSA slab or in a penny sleeve. And that holds whether it is altered or not. I think we are now realizing that the PSA premium is not all that we (collectively) thought it was.

I was going to answer myself (after REA) since Peter's question was in response was to my comment. But you did it for me.

Thanks.... that is word-for-word what I was going to say.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do you object to REA, Heritage, and every other auction house continuing to sell PSA graded cards?

I don't think we can condemn selling cards already in our possession. I have several myself. It's the continued enthusiastic support of PSA in the light of the recent disclosures that troubles me.