What Would You Do With This Forum Transaction?

[seanofjapan]

This raises a good question about what the informal "statute of limitations" is on claims related to transactions here and perhaps setting out a definite time limit for all transactions would be helpful.

4 1/2 years is just way too long. The time frame for claims should reflect a reasonable amount of time that the buyer has to assess an item, balanced against the seller's desire for some finality.

At most this should take months (give a buyer some time to examine it, send it in to a grader and receive their grade if they want, show it to some friends etc, also maybe factoring in a few weeks grace period since not everyone has the time to do that right away), not years.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

This raises a good question about what the informal "statute of limitations" is on claims related to transactions here and perhaps setting out a definite time limit for all transactions would be helpful.

4 1/2 years is just way too long. The time frame for claims should reflect a reasonable amount of time that the buyer has to assess an item, balanced against the seller's desire for some finality.

At most this should take months (give a buyer some time to examine it, send it in to a grader and receive their grade if they want, show it to some friends etc, also maybe factoring in a few weeks grace period since not everyone has the time to do that right away), not years.

Soooooo... With PSA’s awesome turnaround times and expertise on the subject...is 7 months what youre suggesting?

[doug.goodman]

Let's remember that the people who get paid for their opinions have had the card in question in their hands - TWICE.

The attached picture has nothing to do with the card in question, I just like to post it.

Doug

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

This raises a good question about what the informal "statute of limitations" is on claims related to transactions here and perhaps setting out a definite time limit for all transactions would be helpful.

4 1/2 years is just way too long. The time frame for claims should reflect a reasonable amount of time that the buyer has to assess an item, balanced against the seller's desire for some finality.

At most this should take months (give a buyer some time to examine it, send it in to a grader and receive their grade if they want, show it to some friends etc, also maybe factoring in a few weeks grace period since not everyone has the time to do that right away), not years.

Why does a buyer need months to assess a card? When I buy a card I assess it in 15 minutes. If subsequently it turns out it's no good, absent some intentional fraud, I view that as on me.

(If a guarantee a card will grade is part of the deal, I would view it differently. But that's something that needs to be clear up front.)

[Neal]

Unless completely misrepresented in the listing or damaged in transit, a seller should not be held responsible for any refund. Just my opinion.

[slightlyrounded]

Brings me back to that old Russian saying: “Trust, but wait half a decade to verify”

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Neal

Unless completely misrepresented in the listing or damaged in transit, a seller should not be held responsible for any refund. Just my opinion.

I want to return the Johnston Cookies Aaron I bought from you 5 years ago.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I want to return the Johnston Cookies Aaron I bought from you 5 years ago.

Done
Send it back!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Leon]

The person knows they could just sell it as is. But he is honest and won't do that. For the record I told him I thought he should send it in for a PSA review, then go from there. I also thought it's been too long to go back to the seller. It seems this card wasn't looked at until this scandal broke. That's the reason for the lapse in time.

[LEHR]

Even if the card is trimmed the buyer has waited FAR too long to request a refund.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why does a buyer need months to assess a card? When I buy a card I assess it in 15 minutes. If subsequently it turns out it's no good, absent some intentional fraud, I view that as on me.

(If a guarantee a card will grade is part of the deal, I would view it differently. But that's something that needs to be clear up front.)

The starting point of the debate was whether 4.5 years was too much, so I was simply arguing that it should be much less than that and "months" would be a maximum, not necessarily the ideal.

I don' t think 15 minutes is a reasonable standard since we're talking about the entire transaction, not just how long it takes someone to look at a card. You gotta give the postal system some time to deliver the card and the person a reasonable amount of time given what might be a busy schedule to actually open it up and examine it.

Also with higher value transactions at least I think its reasonable to factor in some time for the buyer to submit it to PSA or whatever and if a card they bought advertised as Nrmt or whatever comes back "Altered" they should be entitled to raise a claim for that provided they do so in a reasonable amount of time (taking into consideration postal times, whatever the grading company takes, etc).

I don't know, am I wrong about this? I've never made a high value transaction so I have no idea what the expectations are.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

The starting point of the debate was whether 4.5 years was too much, so I was simply arguing that it should be much less than that and "months" would be a maximum, not necessarily the ideal.

I don' t think 15 minutes is a reasonable standard since we're talking about the entire transaction, not just how long it takes someone to look at a card. You gotta give the postal system some time to deliver the card and the person a reasonable amount of time given what might be a busy schedule to actually open it up and examine it.

Also with higher value transactions at least I think its reasonable to factor in some time for the buyer to submit it to PSA or whatever and if a card they bought advertised as Nrmt or whatever comes back "Altered" they should be entitled to raise a claim for that provided they do so in a reasonable amount of time (taking into consideration postal times, whatever the grading company takes, etc).

I don't know, am I wrong about this? I've never made a high value transaction so I have no idea what the expectations are.

It seems to me if a buyer wants a right of return contingent on the outcome of a third party grader's opinion, he should negotiate it up front along with a time frame.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why does a buyer need months to assess a card? When I buy a card I assess it in 15 minutes. If subsequently it turns out it's no good, absent some intentional fraud, I view that as on me.

(If a guarantee a card will grade is part of the deal, I would view it differently. But that's something that needs to be clear up front.)

I agree with this, probably on my own island on this , but I feel a week AFTER the buyer receives the card is more than enough time to finalize the transaction. I as a seller am not entitled to Buy a Card back I might have regretted selling.

[chalupacollects]

ummm 4.50 years to return something no way... I don't think Target or Kohl's would even go that far...Personally 90 days max should be sufficient to open the mail look at the cards and send for grading under a quicker turnaround if that is the issue...

[drcy]

Not a direct answer to the question because I'm not saying a forgery or scam should never be returnable after a certain amount of time, but the buyer has an obligation to examine and have examined the item he bought in a timely manner.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by drcy

Not a direct answer to the question because I'm not saying a forgery or scam should never be returnable after a certain amount of time, but the buyer has an obligation to examine and have examined the item he bought in a timely manner.

There is a case people learn about in law school on occasion where some dude buys a show dog and it turns out that the dog can’t reproduce because he has only one ball. And the court has some good discussion of whether there is a reasonable expectation that it’s on the buyer if he doesn’t manipulate the dogs scrotum as a last check. Part of the job I guess. Guy lost.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

There is a case people learn about in law school on occasion where some dude buys a show dog and it turns out that the dog can’t reproduce because he has only one ball. And the court has some good discussion of whether there is a reasonable expectation that it’s on the buyer if he doesn’t manipulate the dogs scrotum as a last check. Part of the job I guess. Guy lost.

You could send the dog to PSA but they would miss the fact that the dog only had one ball. They would probably grade it a 10.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

I agree with this, probably on my own island on this , but I feel a week AFTER the buyer receives the card is more than enough time to finalize the transaction. I as a seller am not entitled to Buy a Card back I might have regretted selling.

Yes, but as a seller you don’t have to worry about the cash you received not being as described. I think its reasonable to give the buyer a bit of time to check the card to verify it.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Yes, but as a seller you don’t have to worry about the cash you received not being as described. I think its reasonable to give the buyer a bit of time to check the card to verify it.

True but as a seller I do have to worry about a buyer canceling the transaction through their credit card company and me losing the product and the money. Also when you’re talking about an extended length of time, I sometimes feel that buyers remorse kicks in. Anyone collecting and buying particularly newer stuff realize that sometimes you pay More today but in six months is worth considerably less. Is that a reason for return? I personally don’t feel like it is. Many folks buy and sell as a hobby and may not have the extra funds lying around particularly if it is a high-end card. I know I don’t. Just my thoughts. Not an expert on the situation.