Mets were 14-18 when Degrom started for them

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by familytoad

As long as winning isn't important anymore, sure he's the best.
Big deal.

So you think a pitcher who is 21-5 with a 5.00 ERA is better than a pitcher who is 11-9 with a 1.70 ERA?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Jim65

So you think a pitcher who is 21-5 with a 5.00 ERA is better than a pitcher who is 11-9 with a 1.70 ERA?

I dont he or I are saying your proposed bad pitcher with a 5.00 era is better than degrom, but saying for this year, it seems as far as wins a losses by the team, a cy young statistical season did not seem to net this years Mets team and more wins then an innings eater pitcher...just an interesting observation..

tricky to tie stats to team wins and losses..

[Peter_Spaeth]

DeGrom on the Astros probably goes 22-3.

When you get no run support and your bullpen consistently lets you down, not much you can do W-L wise.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

DeGrom on the Astros probably goes 22-3.

When you get no run support and your bullpen consistently lets you down, not much you can do W-L wise.

You can say that about other Met starters this year (their runs support 5.00 around instead of 4+ which would not have changed many team outcomes)though and they had winning records or very close.

Jason Vargas run support was 4.44 while Degrom was like 4.13 yet Mets were 14-16 when he started games for them. He has same bullpen as Degrom..

Winning a game 11-0 is great for your era and whip..but if you lose the next 2 games 4-2..your team just 1-2

4.13 runs a game run support is not terrible. for Degrom ..heck 1988 Orel Hershiser run support was 4.03 and his era was basically only .1 (2.3 v 2.4) less than Degrom yet his team was 25.-9 in Hershiser's starts...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Whats also crazy is Degrom's mets won his last 4 starts and 3 of them he got the win.

those games were really when the mets were all but eliminated...the start before that his team scored 10 runs but lost..

so really if you take away the last 4 games which were against september call ups and teams with no incentive to win miami, ciny, arizona, dodgers , the mets were 10-18 in his starts..


...its not like he was facing the cubs/braves/washington/cardinals (he did in August face some of those teams and his team was 0-3 in his starts )

[nat]

Look at the games in post 10. Those losses were not his fault. Of course every pitcher every year has some tough luck losses, but not like that. Not that many. He just happened to be pitching on the days that the Mets got shut out or scored only one run over and over again. Sure, on other days he won 13-2 (or whatever), which will balance out the runs support, but if the offense doesn't show up you aren't going to get a win no matter how well you pitch.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Whats also crazy is Degrom's mets won his last 4 starts and 3 of them he got the win.

the start before that his team scored 10 runs but lost..

so really if you take away the last 4 games which were against september call ups and teams with no incentive to win miami, ciny, arizona, dodgers , the mets were 10-18 in his starts..

Every pitcher faces weak teams. deGrom pitched 28 innings in those last 4 starts and gave up 1 run. He should have been 4-0 but the team scored 0 runs for him in the Dodger game.

The 10 run game, Jake left up 10-4 and the bullpen gave up 7 runs in the bottom of the 9th.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jake perhaps you should revive your posts about how Kershaw really is a good postseason pitcher.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Every pitcher faces weak teams. deGrom pitched 28 innings in those last 4 starts and gave up 1 run. He should have been 4-0 but the team scored 0 runs for him in the Dodger game.

The 10 run game, Jake left up 10-4 and the bullpen gave up 7 runs in the bottom of the 9th.

he still did win 3 of those last 4 games so he did cash in those starts even if he only gave up 1 run.. 3 out of 4 is not unusual..

and yes every pitcher faces weak teams but september starts and hitting stats are always taken with a grain of salt against non contending teams....but yeah degrom was dominate in those meaningless games against non contending teams..... we have a very large sample size which shows that the mets were a losing team when he took the hill when they otherwise were a winning team and by a very large margin a winning team if take away the minus 4 with degrom

he still averaged over 4 runs of run support for Cy Young pitchers on winning teams (and better than just 82-80) ..getting 4+runs a game should mean a winning record in terms of team wins... ... .