Ebay seller returned cracked out slab

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If I spend $5k for a card described by the seller AND the TPG as near mint, I am not thinking that I am buying a mystery. I think I am buying a near mint (unaltered) card.

You are buying a mystery if the TPG is GAI. Afterall if its from PSA wouldnt it go for far more than 5k? Its the mystery of the GAI is why GAI 5's go for more than PSA 2's for example.

However the benefit of PSA is you can try to get your money back from them if if the card is altered, as everyone is aware from me, no lawsuits yet that I know of so apparently buyers are satisfied.

As for GAI, its buyer beware and buyer is getting it for the mystery and can sell it later on as long as its in the same holder with the extra mystery value....crack it out, you lose the mystery....


So if someone says 'NO returns on graded cards' I can crack it out of a PSA case and say the card is altered so i want my money back because why would i pay 15k etc....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Early GAI generally speaking is still considered pretty reliable.

[painthistorian]

At one time, GAI had many good cards in holders, much less accurately at higher priced cards or higher tiers. A buyer can initialize a return if the seller uses "Free Returns" power seller terms so he gets an e bay invoice credit monthly if he or she qualifies for Top Rated.

If the seller does not authorize this status, he still has to take card or any item back no matter what within 30 days, so if the buyer cracked out of any slab, either lower tier holders such as CSA or PRO, it ALTERS the original sold product and is not in original sold condition. Even if PSA deemed it altered or non authentic. EVERY GRADING SERVICE including SGC, PSA, GAI, BVG etc offers their professional opinion on grades and based upon our perceptions as to whom we choose to pay to slab numerically...that changes nothing, items are supposed to be returned as shipped, raw or graded....GAI did grade professionally until two years before their demise. If an item is not returned as received, e bay and paypal offers seller protection but you need to file a Federal IC3 fraud report, local police report or professional appraisal to substantiate your claim. Hope this was not too long....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Early GAI generally speaking is still considered pretty reliable.

right..everyone says that and everyone has an opinion of what was early and what wasn't and how to identify it or not. Plus there are problems with early grading as well.

All part of the mystery value but it does add value to a card because of the 'maybe' factor

A XYZ holder has zero 'maybe mystery' factor and is just a hard plastic sleeve.

I think we can agree that if you get a card in a hard plastic sleeve and return it in a soft plastic sleeve, its wrong but nobody really is going to complain

a XYZ holder is a hard plastic sleeve. A GAI holder is more than that because of the mystery and past sales. Maybe 20 years from now GAI will just be a plastic sleeve but its not there yet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right..everyone says that and everyone has an opinion of what was early and what wasn't and how to identify it or not. Plus there are problems with early grading as well.

All part of the mystery value but it does add value to a card because of the 'maybe' factor

A XYZ holder has zero 'maybe mystery' factor and is just a hard plastic sleeve.

I think we can agree that if you get a card in a hard plastic sleeve and return it in a soft plastic sleeve, its wrong but nobody really is going to complain

a XYZ holder is a hard plastic sleeve. A GAI holder is more than that because of the mystery and past sales. Maybe 20 years from now GAI will just be a plastic sleeve but its not there yet.

When a relatively common card says 1st Graded, it's early -- very early.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When a relatively common card says 1st Graded, it's early -- very early.

right and nobody disagrees that GAI also had problems with 1st graded cards..... going to be arguments both ways but yes i agree, GAI has more value than XYZ....you are preaching to the choir

[perezfan]

You still see GAI graded cards in major Catalogue Auctions periodically. I recall a nice Ty Cobb T206 in the last REA Auction.

Do you think REA, Lelands, SCP or Heritage would (for one second) allow the winning bidder to crack it out on their own accord, and accept the returned raw card back, for a full refund? Especially with no notice given, or permission to do so?

The buyer took advantage of the seller, knowing that eBay's liberal return policy had him covered. He wanted the chance for a big payday with no risk, all completely at the expense of the seller.

As others have requested... Please post the Buyer's name.

[painthistorian]

NO auction house would accept a cracked out slab as a return, in fact very few would take back anything after won & paid for the reasoning of anything except maybe authenticity, if it was sold slabbed and was sold intact, pretty sure NO one tolerates that.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by perezfan

You still see GAI graded cards in major Catalogue Auctions periodically. I recall a nice Ty Cobb T206 in the last REA Auction.

Do you think REA, Lelands, SCP or Heritage would (for one second) allow the winning bidder to crack it out on their own accord, and accept the returned raw card back, for a full refund? Especially with no notice given, or permission to do so?

The buyer took advantage of the seller, knowing that eBay's liberal return policy had him covered. He wanted the chance for a big payday with no risk, all completely at the expense of the seller.

As others have requested... Please post the Buyer's name.

Bingo! Please out the buyer so I may block him.

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Bingo! Please out the buyer so I may block him.

Originally Posted by perezfan

You still see GAI graded cards in major Catalogue Auctions periodically. I recall a nice Ty Cobb T206 in the last REA Auction.

Do you think REA, Lelands, SCP or Heritage would (for one second) allow the winning bidder to crack it out on their own accord, and accept the returned raw card back, for a full refund? Especially with no notice given, or permission to do so?

The buyer took advantage of the seller, knowing that eBay's liberal return policy had him covered. He wanted the chance for a big payday with no risk, all completely at the expense of the seller.

As others have requested... Please post the Buyer's name.

Again folks here keep saying buyer "took advantage of ebay policy" But all he did was click a button and ask for a refund. The SELLER CLICKED OK SEND IT BACK. WITHOUT CONTACTING THE BUYER AND ASKING ANY QUESTIONS. We cannot know if buyer would have said ok if seller said he would not refund. We will never know if buyer would have negotiated with the seller. Based on ebay rules Buyer thought spending $5k on an altered card. ( please don't say can we really believe PSA, most of us on this board trust them when they say altered) and started the process to talk with seller. Seller chose not to talk and pressed button for buyer to send it back.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right and nobody disagrees that GAI also had problems with 1st graded cards..... going to be arguments both ways but yes i agree, GAI has more value than XYZ....you are preaching to the choir

Mike Baker, IMO, was as good as anyone. I can only speculate what went wrong at GAI eventually, but in the first year I don't believe there were any more problems than with any other major grader, perhaps fewer.

[t206fix]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

You are buying a mystery if the TPG is GAI. Afterall if its from PSA wouldnt it go for far more than 5k? Its the mystery of the GAI is why GAI 5's go for more than PSA 2's for example.

However the benefit of PSA is you can try to get your money back from them if if the card is altered, as everyone is aware from me, no lawsuits yet that I know of so apparently buyers are satisfied.

As for GAI, its buyer beware and buyer is getting it for the mystery and can sell it later on as long as its in the same holder with the extra mystery value....crack it out, you lose the mystery....


So if someone says 'NO returns on graded cards' I can crack it out of a PSA case and say the card is altered so i want my money back because why would i pay 15k etc....

Exactly - like buying a lottery ticket with a $7000 potential prize on the face, and then trying to return it because you only won $100.

[todeen]

I actually really like this thread just for the psychological aspect it presents. I have asked my non-card collector friends what their opinion is. Even among my friends the choice between buyer and seller is at 50/50. One friend said that buying an appraised card from a defunct company that has an iffy integrity should signal to the seller it will be reappraised. The card should have been regraded by the seller or taken out of the holder. She added, no opinion is always better than a bad opinion.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by todeen

I actually really like this thread just for the psychological aspect it presents. I have asked my non-card collector friends what their opinion is. Even among my friends the choice between buyer and seller is at 50/50. One friend said that buying an appraised card from a defunct company that has an iffy integrity should signal to the seller it will be reappraised. The card should have been regraded by the seller or taken out of the holder. She added, no opinion is always better than a bad opinion.

Is there a third party grading company you know of that has anything better than "iffy integrity"? None of the current ones with names comprised of 3 initials would come to mind.

I do agree that no opinion is better than a bad opinion (as per the thousands of erroneous numerical grades exposed on Blowout).

[todeen]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Is there a third party grading company you know of that has anything better than "iffy integrity"? None of the current ones with names comprised of 3 initials would come to mind.

I do agree that no opinion is better than a bad opinion (as per the thousands of erroneous numerical grades exposed on Blowout).

Although PSA, JSA, SGC, BGCC are not fool proof, they had/have a better public perception/persona/image than Global. Global went belly up during the recession because it wasn't good. Those that remained had better public images. That is how I presented it to my friend. So, according to my friend, it has been 10 years in which time the seller could have acted. It was in the sellers best interest to resubmit the card to a new appraiser than to keep it in the holder. Because the seller didn't do that, my friend says that it's the sellers fault for selling a product with an appraisal from a company that was known for bad appraisals.

[Leon]

Your friend was wrong. Your friend is right though in that it probably has been 10 yrs since GAI was relevant. So plenty of time for the buyer to know that. He gambled and he lost. Now he returned a different item and ebay sucks for taking the buyers side. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by todeen

Although PSA, JSA, SGC, BGCC are not fool proof, they had/have a better public perception/persona/image than Global. Global went belly up during the recession because it wasn't good. Those that remained had better public images. That is how I presented it to my friend. So, according to my friend, it has been 10 years in which time the seller could have acted. It was in the sellers best interest to resubmit the card to a new appraiser than to keep it in the holder. Because the seller didn't do that, my friend says that it's the sellers fault for selling a product with an appraisal from a company that was known for bad appraisals.

[mq711]

With the BST here and most places its "buyer beware," on eBay its seller beware; and those were the guidelines the buyer was going by.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by t206fix

Exactly - like buying a lottery ticket with a $7000 potential prize on the face, and then trying to return it because you only won $100.

Yes exactly, wow someone understood my point exactly