Ebay seller returned cracked out slab

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aplyon86

Depends if the packaging has value or not. If so, is that value contingent upon the packaging and the item being together (e.g., not opened)? If so, then no you cannot return it for a full refund. Partial refund maybe but that packing did add to the value.

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So I am stuck with a broken watch because I actually tested whether it worked our not? That makes no sense.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So I am stuck with a broken watch because I actually tested whether it worked our not? That makes no sense.

Is the company that packaged that hypothetical watch still in business?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Is the company that packaged that hypothetical watch still in business?

Sure but most watch manufacturers provide a warranty only on watches sold through authorized dealers. This watch is not bought from an authorized dealer.

[Aplyon86]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So I am stuck with a broken watch because I actually tested whether it worked our not? That makes no sense.

If the packaging had value then you'd be stuck with some sort of loss. I was trying to say that the buy "damaged" the item (in this case the item isn't the card it's the combined item of the card and the slab with an opinion that it was not altered and had a grade of a 7). What's left is just the card. So whatever that value that was lost should be on the buyer.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aplyon86

If the packaging had value then you'd be stuck with some sort of loss. I was trying to say that the buy "damaged" the item (in this case the item isn't the card it's the combined item of the card and the slab with an opinion that it was not altered and had a grade of a 7). What's left is just the card. So whatever that value that was lost should be on the buyer.

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Let's stick with the watch for now. So the risk is on me that the watch is defective? I really don't understand that, given the "not as described" remedy provided by ebay and paypal.

[Aplyon86]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's stick with the watch for now. So the risk is on me that the watch is defective? I really don't understand that.

The risk of destroying an accessory to the watch, yes the risk is on you. The watch itself, no. This isn't the best anology because the slab, albeit GAI and albeit they missed the alteration, did have more than an insignificant value. If you had the following 2 choices to buy the watch, would you expect a full refund in BOTH cases?

1. Just the watch (e.g. a raw card)
2. The watch, but you paid a 50% premium because it came in an expensive hand carved wooden box that you destroyed to pieces (e.g., the slab)?

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[Rhotchkiss]

I think it’s nuts we still don’t know who the seller is?

Peter/Mark and anyone else supporting the buyer here, I don’t want to get into it (we disagree), but regardless of who you think is right and wrong, would you feel comfortable selling any card to the buyer? I wouldn’t!

I think we would all be better off knowing who is out there on eBay cracking cards out, submitting them, and then returning them if they don’t fish their wish.

Edited: substituted “buyer” for “seller” twice

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I think it’s nuts we still don’t know who the seller is?

Peter/Mark and anyone else supporting the seller here, I don’t want to get into it (we disagree), but regardless of who you think is right and wrong, would you feel comfortable selling any card to the seller? I wouldn’t!

I think we would all be better off knowing who is out there on eBay cracking cards out, submitting them, and then returning them if they don’t fish their wish.

If I had a GAI high-end card, it would come down to this: IF the card is doctored (assuming I don't know), would I rather:

1. Foist it on a buyer at a near mint price, or
2. Would I prefer to know about the alterations, and deal with that event, knowing I would be selling it for thousands less.

I would like to say I would do the latter, but I have to admit, I might be able to rationalize the former, depending how much the extra money meant to me at the time.

If the former then no, because this buyer verifies authenticity of his purchases and it would be unlikely I could sneak a doctored card past him.

If the latter, then yes, because the buyer and I would both want to know the truth about the card, and him spending his own money to have PSA identify the doctoring would actually be helping me in learning the truth.

Having said that, as has been pointed out, there is a lot we don't know, and we have only heard one side of the story. I also wonder what form the PSA opinion is in, since they apparently did not slab the card.

I see both sides of this issue. It is an unfortunate situation and an innocent person is going to be hurt, since I assume the card doctor got away with his ill-gotten gain a decade ago.

[Rhotchkiss]

Sorry, I just edited my earlier post- I meant to say we should know identity of the buyer and I meant to ask would you want to sell a slabbed card to the buyer (if the GAI card in this case).

[Aplyon86]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's stick with the watch for now. So the risk is on me that the watch is defective? I really don't understand that, given the "not as described" remedy provided by ebay and paypal.

Also the slab serves sort of as a COA that the item being returned is the exact same item in the exact same condition as what was sold. Who's to say the card wasn't trimmed after it was cracked? Or as someone pointed out, cracking it out could have damaged the card, too.

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[perezfan]

Once it was cracked out, any right to return it should be removed. The card could have been altered/enhanced after the cracking-out, or easily damaged as a result of the crack-out.

I can see the other side of this, and it makes for a great discussion. But to me, a return is only warranted if the seller receives his item back in same condition as it was sold. And based on what we've seen time and time again, PSA's "expert opinion" offers no more credence than any other self-appointed authority.