Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Ok, so you're a straw man guy. Got it.

I didn't realize there was any proof the card originally in the GAI holder was altered. PSA declared it was after the card was removed from the holder. There is no understanding of whether or not the card was altered after being cracked out, by the buyer. It may have been fine in the GAI holder, just overgraded.

Again, the precedent this sets is that any card can be removed from the holder and returned for a refund. Which would lead to even more fraud. I am all for rooting out fraud in the space, this just doesn't seem like the same thing. Your arguments are being read as white-knighting for the buyer, who know they did something wrong and are trying to pass the buck back to the unsuspecting seller.

Not sure why you feel a need to call me a straw man or white knighting for the buyer, but whatever. I thought we were having an honest and mutually repectful discussion about something that has a lot of angles to it, and serious ramifications going forward.

Ebay has said that they treat GAI differently than the current, recognized TPG: Beckett, PSA, SGC. So your precedent of people cracking, resubmitting, and returning wouldn't work on ebay regarding those slabs in the first place.

And I don't think it should've worked had alterations not been discovered in this case. This is NOT a matter of a guy buying a card, trying to get a better grade, seeing he can't, then returning the card out of its slab. Everybody in the world knows that would be wrong. This is about discovering and exposing a deception that seriously impacts the value of the actual card.

You didn't respond to my answer to your computer scenario. I am curious what your thoughts are, so I'll repeat my question to you:

What if I buy a computer system described as new, slice the factory warranty sticker on the tower and discover they sold me a system frankensteined together with a bunch of used parts? Is the fact I needed to slice the sticker to inspect it enough for them to put the blame on ME, while conveniently overlooking the real fraud?

[swarmee]

I actually wrote a response to the computer scenario, but as you seem to just be arguing to argue, I didn't intend to continue the conversation.

If the computer was working properly, and you were sold a lemon but didn't know it, is there really an issue that required the slicing of the seal? If the computer was malfunctioning, and you knew that by slicing the seal you were voiding the warranty, wouldn't you return the computer, with seal intact, whether the parts were fake or they were real and just broken?

You are adding a lot of hypotheticals to this issue where they don't really apply, so you are using "straw man" logic.

[Mark17]

It doesn't matter why someone breaks the seal on the computer. What matters is that when he does and fraud is revealed, it is the fraud that meatters Not the seal. Not the GAI holder.

I am arguing to argue, while you are on some higher ground? Whatever.

In your world, if a guy flattens out corners of a card, then neatly trims them sharp, in such a way that the only way the alteration can be detected would be to inspect the edges and measure the thickness, then all he has to do is get it slabbed and he's home free!

1. If the card remains slabbed, nobody ever knows.
2. If the card is cracked and the alteration discovered, no recourse for the buyer because he cracked it out.

You said I was white-knighting for the buyer. Now I will ask you, are you white-knighting for card doctors?

[swarmee]

Ok man, have a good time. I think I've proven I'm not a fan of the card doctors. What we haven't proven is that your wronged buyer isn't the card doctor himself.

[perezfan]

Early Global Authentication was just as good as any other TPG. They devolved later on, but depending on when this card was graded by GAI, it could've been perfectly legit in that slab. Lots of assumptions being made here, and lots of NON apples-to-apples scenarios being thrown around.

Perhaps this particular thread should revert back to its original subject matter of outed altered cards, and we debate the cracked out card solely within the other thread.

[Stampsfan]

Don’t we have another thread going for this GAI returned item scenario?

[perezfan]

Exactly… Hopefully the discussion of the cracked GAI Card can remain solely in that thread.