Hey, pennant guys

[perezfan]

Fantastic pickup, Rob...

J E A L O U S of that one... what a beauty!

[bocca001]

Liked the orange and black on this one

[perezfan]

Good call, Andy, on the 1915 Pan Pacific Pennant. Almost certainly, that's what it is...

As for the Chicago version, I have seen countless pennants over the decades, in which a sports team pennant shared the same image/graphics as a non-sports pennant. I have seen very specific Cleveland Indians and Detroit Tigers Pennants in which the same exact mascot was used for a zoo, national/state park, or city souvenir pennant. The companies that made these had a "library" of sorts, and utilized these images as appropriate. They did not always create a new image for every pennant and did not limit many of the images to sports.

That said... I still strongly believe the Chicago version is a Cubs Pennant. They always used burgundy for their pre-1920 pennants. The Chicago Bears came to exist in 1922, and oversized pennants were all but gone by then. As for it being a non-sports pennant, of course that remains a slight possibility. But whereas the Bear made complete sense for California (it is the California State Animal, and is prominent on the State Flag), it makes little/no sense for Chicago (other than for the Cubs). Furthermore, the Cubs used a full Bear Mascot back then, as opposed to the later cute Cubbie type mascot.

Just my 2 cents...

[perezfan]

Also...

I know this is a pennant thread, but GORGEOUS PIN, Andy...

That is some beautiful artwork and the Bear charm is just awesome!

[andypcl]

Thanks Mark, I sold a lot of 6 PPIE buttons last night on Ebay and just couldn't get myself to add this one to the lot. It's a keeper.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The companies that made these had a "library" of sorts, and utilized these images as appropriate. They did not always create a new image for every pennant and did not limit many of the images to sports.

That said... I still strongly believe the Chicago version is a Cubs Pennant. They always used burgundy for their pre-1920 pennants. The Chicago Bears came to exist in 1922, and oversized pennants were all but gone by then. As for it being a non-sports pennant, of course that remains a slight possibility. But whereas the Bear made complete sense for California (it is the California State Animal, and is prominent on the State Flag), it makes little/no sense for Chicago (other than for the Cubs).

Ditto on all that. Pennant makers definitely re-used their own artwork wherever they could. In many sales catalogues they offered their customers, they would brag about their vast collection of stock artwork you could select from. Typically, this concerned mascots. In some cases, say for something really popular, like a bear, they'd offer 2-3 different variants of the bear. One might be a realistic bear; another might be a cartoonish bear; and still another might feature a third bear posed differently or from an alternative angle.

And, you make a really good case about that Cubs pennant, Mark. I can think of no reason why you would associate a Grizzly Bear with the city of Chicago--unless you were trying to sell it outside the gates of Wrigley Field (or, was it Weeghman Park back in those days?).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Ditto on all that. Pennant makers definitely re-used their own artwork wherever they could. In many sales catalogues they offered their customers, they would brag about their vast collection of stock artwork you could select from. Typically, this concerned mascots. In some cases, say for something really popular, like a bear, they'd offer 2-3 different variants of the bear. One might be a realistic bear; another might be a cartoonish bear; and still another might feature a third bear posed differently or from an alternative angle.

And, you make a really good case about that Cubs pennant, Mark. I can think of no reason why you would associate a Grizzly Bear with the city of Chicago--unless you were trying to sell it outside the gates of Wrigley Field (or, was it Weeghman Park back in those days?).

Hard to say! I think the Chicago Ballpark was transitioning right about the time this pennant would've been produced. Great insights!

[Domer05]

I just picked this pennant up. I'm curious if any of you PCL experts can weigh-in as to whether this may be an Oakland Oaks (or, Acorns, as they were also known as) PCL pennant; or, just a generic city of Oakland, California souvenir pennant?

The tag reads "Newman Mfg. Co. / 883 Market St. / San Francisco ". I did some research on this manufacturer and found a listing for them in a 1922 San Francisco Chamber of Commerce directory; albeit, at a different address located just around the corner.

The pennant is a standard full size at 30" in length--so, it's not oversized like many from the early part of the century. But it is entirely sewn letter; and the style of the manufacturer's logo is very consistent with those from the turn of the century. I would therefore guess this pennant came from the 1910s.

I'm also aware that the San Francisco Seals and the Oaks/Acorns were owned by the same owner back in those days; and, as a result, played many of their home games in San Francisco at Recreation Park as early as 1907. They played there off and on through the early 1920s, in fact.

So, if this is an Oaks/Acorns pennant, that might explain why it was made by a San Francisco manufacturer.

I think their team colors were also blue/white back in the 1910s, but I haven't been able to confirm that.

Anyway, penny for your thoughts?

[bocca001]

Found this Oilers pennant today at an antique mall. I'd never seen it before. The older looking helmet makes me think that it is from the early days of the Oilers.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I just picked this pennant up. I'm curious if any of you PCL experts can weigh-in as to whether this may be an Oakland Oaks (or, Acorns, as they were also known as) PCL pennant; or, just a generic city of Oakland, California souvenir pennant?

The tag reads "Newman Mfg. Co. / 883 Market St. / San Francisco ". I did some research on this manufacturer and found a listing for them in a 1922 San Francisco Chamber of Commerce directory; albeit, at a different address located just around the corner.

The pennant is a standard full size at 30" in length--so, it's not oversized like many from the early part of the century. But it is entirely sewn letter; and the style of the manufacturer's logo is very consistent with those from the turn of the century. I would therefore guess this pennant came from the 1910s.

I'm also aware that the San Francisco Seals and the Oaks/Acorns were owned by the same owner back in those days; and, as a result, played many of their home games in San Francisco at Recreation Park as early as 1907. They played there off and on through the early 1920s, in fact.

So, if this is an Oaks/Acorns pennant, that might explain why it was made by a San Francisco manufacturer.

I think their team colors were also blue/white back in the 1910s, but I haven't been able to confirm that.

Anyway, penny for your thoughts?

Here's my 2 cents for your penny...

I love that pennant and especially since it's labeled. 99% of my pennants are not labeled. Unfortunately, I don't think it's an Oaks pennants. My quickie research shows the early Oaks used a color scheme of green and yellow (like the Modern A's) with a bit of red in their "insignias". It wasn't until the 1950s (maybe 1940s) that they went to red and blue on white unis. I could definitely be wrong on this, though...