Working theory: Murad T51 ’number-on-front’ variations

[conor912]

I don’t have a whole lot to offer to the theory, but wanted to chime in with some love for Murads. Some of the most visually appealing and under rated cards in the hobby, IMO.

[lampertb]

Reviving this old thread with some post-pandemic questions:
1) What do you think the value today of the #14 (NOF) Williams card would be?
2) The only population figures that I can find separating the Murad cards into NOF, 1st series, and 2nd series pops is years old; what's the best way to go about estimating how many of each are still in existence for Williams?

[Pat R]

The shipping of the Murad College series began in April 1910 and the series was discontinued in December 1911.

Murad Colledge series.jpg

[Mikan99]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The shipping of the Murad College series began in April 1910 and the series was discontinued in December 1911.

Attachment 644707

I believe the April 1910 date refers to the T6 Murad College series (larger size cards). There are two versions of the T6 redemption card and the one shown is the revised version (with mail out date), while the original T6 redemption card just had the offer expiry date.

Given the above, and that the Murad T51 came before the T6, the date for T51 cards is generally thought to be 1909.

We can also be fairly sure that the T51 cards from Series 1 that have the number (e,g Williams #14 basketball card) came before the Series 1 without numbers. This comes down to the fact that the Series 1 cards are the only ones to have a numbered version. No other series in the set have a number version.

Keen to hear other thoughts on this.

https://www.projectnaismith.com/guide-prewar-cards

[swarmee]

https://forum.vintagenonsports.com/p...ighlight=murad

Post 17 has some historical data about the number of cards graded by 2016 when I wrote an article about it in the Wrapper.

[Mikan99]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://forum.vintagenonsports.com/p...ighlight=murad

Post 17 has some historical data about the number of cards graded by 2016 when I wrote an article about it in the Wrapper.

Thanks, lots of great info in that and definitely worth the read.
So, two question for clarification, do you put the Series 1 (with numbering variation) as being released before the Series 1 (unnumbered)? Do you know why they had a numbered variation?

cheers

[swarmee]

Yes, I think the numbered likely came first. I don't know why they had a numbered variation.

[slightlyrounded]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The shipping of the Murad College series began in April 1910 and the series was discontinued in December 1911.

Attachment 644707

I believe 1st series began packing June 5th, 1909. 1st series, Second edition began shipping Sept 24th, 2010.

Page 8 of the full American Lithographic Ledger clearly shows this. Unfortunately no mention of the NOFs within the document. (Side note, what an AMAZING document).

Number-on-front (NOFs) were quite obviously the first thing to be printed (early 1909) but then the number was knocked off and they continued printing them. My theory continues to be the coupons asked for the T6 premiums to be ordered by 'number' (alphabetical), but the differently numbered t51s were causing confusion OR at least the ATC thought they would once inserted.

[slightlyrounded]

On second pass - I’m now wondering if the original NOF production date was May 25th (I assume 1909). It certainly appears to say that date under the series 1 info that was glued on top of the writing. Highly speculative on my part, but that would mean that they printed the NOFs for a week and a half.

[srittenberg]

Someone told me about T51 variations but I hadn't researched until today and found this thread. After reading what I can see here, is it correct that the first series has three variations:
a. College Series 1 to 25 (Number on Front) <-- very rare
b. College Series 1 to 25
c. College Series 1 to 25, 2nd Edition

I didn't even know there were any variations until I found this thread. Which are scarcer, the 2nd Edition or not 2nd Edition? I haven't seen an NOF but I may have missed something in a link above & will check. If someone has a pic they can share, I'd appreciate it.

I have the set complete but may split into 2nd Edition / Not 2nd Edition. Are any particularly tough to find within those groups?

Are there variations in the rest of the set? Thanks for reading and appreciate any responses. -- Steve Rittenberg

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by srittenberg

Someone told me about T51 variations but I hadn't researched until today and found this thread. After reading what I can see here, is it correct that the first series has three variations:
a. College Series 1 to 25 (Number on Front) <-- very rare
b. College Series 1 to 25
c. College Series 1 to 25, 2nd Edition

I didn't even know there were any variations until I found this thread. Which are scarcer, the 2nd Edition or not 2nd Edition? I haven't seen an NOF but I may have missed something in a link above & will check. If someone has a pic they can share, I'd appreciate it.

I have the set complete but may split into 2nd Edition / Not 2nd Edition. Are any particularly tough to find within those groups?

Are there variations in the rest of the set? Thanks for reading and appreciate any responses. -- Steve Rittenberg

Read the article I posted in the link in post 9 here. I ended up selling my top-rated PSA registry set to Dave Lemon a few years back due to the PSA grading incompetence scandal.
Here are images of most of the Number on Front variations.
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...timeset/187482
https://www.comc.com/Cards/MultiSpor...+murad+1910,ot