T213 Coupon/T215 Red Cross Scarcity relative to T206 Backs

[ahumes13]

I’ve seen sources which indicate where T213 Coupon Type 1 and T215 Red Cross Type 1 are considered in relation to scarcity of T206 backs, for example http://www.t206.org/backs.php. I get that Type 1 is included because they are arguably T206 cards.

My question is where do you think T213 type 2 and 3 and T215 type 2 would fall in the T206 scarcity spectrum? I understand there isn’t a solid argument for these types being T206 cards, but just curious where they would fall in the scarcity range?

Andy

[ullmandds]

I'm not as in tune to t206 back rarities as I once was...especially pertaining to factories but I'll give you my estimation anyways!

Type 2 coupons = american beauty 350 w/frame

type 3 coupon=brodleaf

type 3 overprint = bl 460

t215 type 2 = lenox

I welcome criticism!

[Rhotchkiss]

I think Pete's analogies are pretty sound. There are some real T213 and Louisiana card experts on here, and maybe one or more of them will comment. Here is my take, I hope it helps:

T213-2 are not very rare; indeed they are fairly common. Perhaps Tolstoi, instead of American Beauty, in terms of scarcity. But on value, they sell as a common back T206 would.

T213-3 are rare, but can be found. You may have to spend some time and effort searching if you want a particular player combo, and you may have to be patient. Cost-wise, Type 3's are 2-3x more expensive that Type 2's, and are more in-line with the American Beauty, or perhaps Brown Hindu, analogy.

T213-3 overprint (pictured below)-- these are very rare, and I am not familiar with any where more than one example is known to exist (but I am sure there are a few). In terms if rarity, BL 460 is a solid analogy. I would perhaps go a bit further and liken it to a brown lenox or brown old mill. Value-wise, they are expensive but bring nowhere near a BL460 price; maybe like a black lenox (or a bit less)

T215-2 are rare. I think they are rarer than black lenox. I would say Uzit rare (relatively speaking), but with all the Drums and Uzits coming out lately, Uzits feels rarer than Drums and Drums feel as common as Lenox! Value-wise, these are probably about where the T213-3 overprints trade.

Two you forgot -- T214 & T215 Pirate backs (both pictured below). Neither can be considered T206's because they were issued in 1915 and 1912, respectively, and T206 is 1909-11. But they are well worth noting because, like T213-2/3 and T215-2, they have T206 front pics.

T214's are quite rare. Rarer than any other ones mentioned above except T213-3 overprint. These are tough to find. Value-wise, they sell for Lenox-Uzit prices

T215 Pirates are wicked rare (thats a technical term). There is one almost complete set known, and a smattering of others - maybe 20(ish) known. These cards are brown old mill rare, and they sell for brown lenox/brown old mill prices, if they even ever come up. Like brown old mills, all T213 Pirates are graded A (or should be) because they were not factory cut.

[ullmandds]

Nice synopsis but pirates are t215.

[Rhotchkiss]

Right, total brain fart/typo. Pirate backs are indeed t215s!

[JackW]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

T215 Pirates are wicked rare (thats a technical term). There is one almost complete set known, and a smattering of others - maybe 20(ish) known. These cards are brown old mill rare, and they sell for brown lenox/brown old mill prices, if they even ever come up. Like brown old mills, all T213 Pirates are graded A (or should be) because they were not factory cut.

A few T215 Pirates have sold since 2016 in the $5,000-$7,000 range. Brown Old Mills sell for at least two to three times that, don't they?

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...heinie-wagner/

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...dinary-rarity/

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...d-boston-amer/

[ahumes13]

Great info, thanks to all!

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

T213-3 overprint (pictured below)-- these are very rare, and I am not familiar with any where more than one example is known to exist (but I am sure there are a few). In terms if rarity, BL 460 is a solid analogy. I would perhaps go a bit further and liken it to a brown lenox or brown old mill. Value-wise, they are expensive but bring nowhere near a BL460 price; maybe like a black lenox (or a bit less)

I personally wouldn't classify any T213, T214, or T215 subtype as ""very rare," but I think we just disagree on the semantics there, not what the actual numbers are.

One quibble though. I've seen 3 different examples of the T213-3 (factory overprint) Eddie Collins.

[Leon]

There are a few of the T213-3 overprints that used to turn up of the same player, if I recall correctly when I was into backs even more than now. All of these LA issues are rare relative to collecting whatever it is they (new card collectors) do today. Well, I guess not if you include manufactured rarity. And I know there are a few in vintage but not all of them. I miss some of my old cards....but i know they went to good homes.

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I personally wouldn't classify any T213, T214, or T215 subtype as ""very rare," but I think we just disagree on the semantics there, not what the actual numbers are.

One quibble though. I've seen 3 different examples of the T213-3 (factory overprint) Eddie Collins.