Analysis of current AH's rules regarding shill/internal/sketchy bidding practices

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yet again, if what Heritage does is fine, why doesn't any other auction house bid on its own lots, competing with its customers?

And to the folks who are good with Heritage's bidding practices, what do you think they should do when they learn (as with the Bobby Hull) that they've auctioned an altered card?

The internet lynch mob wants to know.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yet again, if what Heritage does is fine, why doesn't any other auction house bid on its own lots, competing with its customers?

And to the folks who are good with Heritage's bidding practices, what do you think they should do when they learn (as with the Bobby Hull) that they've auctioned an altered card?

The internet lynch mob wants to know.

To think they would answer is foolhardy. THEY are in on it and don't give a flying F... But you knew that, that's why you asked twice. The silence should tell everybody everything they need to know about them.

The Hull is just one of 100,000's of thousand these scabs are selling. They all cater to the trimming crowds o what would you expect? Them to care They are laughing all the way to the bank like so many others

[Peter_Spaeth]

If they won't answer maybe the people vouching for them will answer? It's a simple enough question, it's now been established they sold a butchered card for 70K or whatever it was. What should they be doing about it? And if they aren't doing anything, is that deserving of criticism?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If they won't answer maybe the people vouching for them will answer? It's a simple enough question, it's now been established they sold a butchered card for 70K or whatever it was. What should they be doing about it? And if they aren't doing anything, is that deserving of criticism?

Have you tried emailing or calling Chris Ivy? That is what he said to do with further questions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

Have you tried emailing or calling Chris Ivy? That is what he said to do with further questions.

I'm not playing by his rules. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If they won't answer maybe the people vouching for them will answer? It's a simple enough question, it's now been established they sold a butchered card for 70K or whatever it was. What should they be doing about it? And if they aren't doing anything, is that deserving of criticism?

I'm not sure they should be doing or saying anything publicly about it unless the buyer of the card made a public complaint. Maybe the new owner of the card is fine with it. Or perhaps he is already in talks with heritage or PSA. I would hope they would do something for the buyer if a request is made. But I don't think we should expect auction houses to monitor online forums and notify customers that they may own an altered card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm not sure they should be doing or saying anything publicly about it unless the buyer of the card made a public complaint. Maybe the new owner of the card is fine with it. Or perhaps he is already in talks with heritage or PSA. I would hope they would do something for the buyer if a request is made. But I don't think we should expect auction houses to monitor online forums and notify customers that they may own an altered card.

Should we expect auction houses not to take consignments from known card doctors, or is that also asking too much of them?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Should we expect auction houses not to take consignments from known card doctors, or is that also asking too much of them?

Very good point...if Newport Beach is telling owner of said altered card in their holder to go back to seller then he’ll yeah it shouldn’t be asking to much for them to not take consignments from known doctors.

I find this very interesting.....a couple thoughts come to my mind....

How can any auction house have any confidence in PSA?

It doesn’t seem to stop any of them from submitting cards to PSA for their clients to have in their up coming auctions.

The most important thing for all seems to maximize the value of their said card......until Market Share has exponentially declined I see nothing changing just more submissions to NB

[Exhibitman]

I can't believe I agree with Jesse but he's right w/r/t the Hull: it all comes down to the buyer. First of all, we don't know what is going on with the buyer or behind the scenes; a refund may be in the works. Second, if there is no complaining victim then, frankly, it is not anyone else's place to be indignant on behalf of that person. To take the most extreme example, Ken Kendrick owns a Wagner that was sheet cut and then trimmed and has said that he is aware of the card's history and is happy to own it regardless. What is the seller supposed to do with that, try to force him to accept a refund? If the purchaser of one of the Frankencards doesn't care, we are wasting our time complaining for him. At this point we don't know one way or the other, so all we really have a nice juicy story to gossip about.

Again I hate to agree with some folks here, but the more appropriate target of the lynch mob on the Hull card is the idiocracy at PSA who validated the card. Those incompetent buffoons have blown it on an ungodly large number of allegedly high grade cards. That's the really awful story for collectors, not that some slab-collecting nitwit spent a ridiculous amount for the flip of a hockey card.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Should we expect auction houses not to take consignments from known card doctors, or is that also asking too much of them?

This has come up before. Who determines what people are known card doctors? What prevents their wife, family member, or friend from submitting on their behalf? I'm not sure that's the solution.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

This has come up before. Who determines what people are known card doctors? What prevents their wife, family member, or friend from submitting on their behalf? I'm not sure that's the solution.

If I were a lawyer I would say non-responsive.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I'm not sure they should be doing or saying anything publicly about it unless the buyer of the card made a public complaint. Maybe the new owner of the card is fine with it. Or perhaps he is already in talks with heritage or PSA. I would hope they would do something for the buyer if a request is made. But I don't think we should expect auction houses to monitor online forums and notify customers that they may own an altered card.

No, they are likely too busy monitoring new consignments to see what they want to bid on.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yet again, if what Heritage does is fine, why doesn't any other auction house bid on its own lots, competing with its customers?

And to the folks who are good with Heritage's bidding practices, what do you think they should do when they learn (as with the Bobby Hull) that they've auctioned an altered card?

The internet lynch mob wants to know.

I kinda remember when Huggins auctions was outed as allowing employees to bid on their auction items...they changed their policy.

Personally I think this practice is BS and I will never bid in an auction where this is permitted let alone stated in their "rules."

As one of the "biggest and best" auction houses on the planet...Heritage obviously should do the right thing regarding the Hull card.

Will they? Who knows?

lynch mob member #2