Analysis of current AH's rules regarding shill/internal/sketchy bidding practices

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fred

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

Location, location, location.

[Buythatcard]

I always found it a little strange when I would place max bids on multiple items at Heritage only to get outbid on most of them at the exact same time. I always felt like it was automated.

[Republicaninmass]

"But (HA, or insert auction co here) is a billion dollar company, why would they need to do this"


Says the crowd

[ullmandds]

I was kind of hoping that this thread would lead to some of you investigating some of the other auction House sites and ultimately we can compile a grid or a list of all the auction houses and they’re bidding behaviors.

My intention was not to bash any individual auction house just to make everyone aware of who does what.

I will add to this when I have a moment.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I was kind of hoping that this thread would lead to some of you investigating some of the other auction House sites and ultimately we can compile a grid or a list of all the auction houses and they’re bidding behaviors.

My intention was not to bash any individual auction house just to make everyone aware of who does what.

I will add to this when I have a moment.

Pete, I am pretty sure that REA and memory lane use the same software, which I think precludes the AH from seeing a max bid. I also think both AHs forbid employees from bidding in their auctions; however, I think employees can consign.

Categories should be (1) can employees consign, (2) can employees bid, (3) can employees see max bids, (4) are reserves disclosed, and if so, at what point in the auction is it disclosed there is a reserve and at what point do we know what the reserve amount is.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Pete, I am pretty sure that REA and memory lane use the same software, which I think precludes the AH from seeing a max bid.

when I’m driving on a dark rainy night I’m less concerned about what other cars are on the road than I am who the drivers are.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Pete, I am pretty sure that REA and memory lane use the same software, which I think precludes the AH from seeing a max bid. I also think both AHs forbid employees from bidding in their auctions; however, I think employees can consign.

Categories should be (1) can employees consign, (2) can employees bid, (3) can employees see max bids, (4) are reserves disclosed, and if so, at what point in the auction is it disclosed there is a reserve and at what point do we know what the reserve amount is.

Ryan, the same people who tell you that the software prevents owners from seeing max bids are those who steal their clients’ mailing lists and sell them to other clients.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Ryan, the same people who tell you that the software prevents owners from seeing max bids are those who steal their clients’ mailing lists and sell them to other clients.

As a company that uses the same platform as REA I know I can't see the maximum bids.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

"But (HA, or insert auction co here) is a billion dollar company, why would they need to do this"


Says the crowd

Maybe to become a $2 billion auction company??

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

"But (HA, or insert auction co here) is a billion dollar company, why would they need to do this"


Says the crowd

Because, Ted, otherwise, IMHO, lots of the great cards that get consigned to Mile High (e.g., the low-grade 1916 Holmes-to-Homes cards that just sold for insane prices), Heritage, and other auction houses with similar T&Cs would otherwise be consigned to "higher-integrity-T&C" auction houses like REA & LOTG.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I always found it a little strange when I would place max bids on multiple items at Heritage only to get outbid on most of them at the exact same time. I always felt like it was automated.

This is exactly what happened to me in Hunt's yesterday. The auction had just opened - I bid on a whole slew of items - and was instantly outbid on every single one! I have never had that happen before.... It's as if each lot already had a ceiling bid in place. Normally you are the high bidder for at least a short period.

I know Hunt has stated they are privy to use hidden reserves on certain items... but for every single lot (dozens actually) to receive outbids instantaneously feels like a mathematical impossibility.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by perezfan

This is exactly what happened to me in Hunt's yesterday. The auction had just opened - I bid on a whole slew of items - and was instantly outbid on every single one! I have never had that happen before.... It's as if each lot already had a ceiling bid in place. Normally you are the high bidder for at least a short period.

I know Hunt has stated they are privy to use hidden reserves on certain items... but for every single lot (dozens actually) to receive outbids instantaneously feels like a mathematical impossibility.

While I'm not going to say there might not be an issue with some auctions, the AH placing automatic bids early doesn't make a lot of sense since they are also then limiting the number of potential bidders putting who may put in placeholder bids. I can also say it is not uncommon for me to go through the day an auction opens and put in a bid, and sometimes a bid several increments up if the opening bid is really low, on a majority of the card lots. Often I'll put in bids on lots up to say 50% of what I believe a lot should sell for with the idea to limit the number of other bidders. As someone who is willing to buy just about anything when the price is right, I do that to keep my options open during extended bidding when i go through looking for bargains. Have 2 or 3 people like me doing that and it is easy to see how you could get outbid immediately on multiple lots.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

While I'm not going to say there might not be an issue with some auctions, the AH placing automatic bids early doesn't make a lot of sense since they are also then limiting the number of potential bidders putting who may put in placeholder bids. I can also say it is not uncommon for me to go through the day an auction opens and put in a bid, and sometimes a bid several increments up if the opening bid is really low, on a majority of the card lots. Often I'll put in bids on lots up to say 50% of what I believe a lot should sell for with the idea to limit the number of other bidders. As someone who is willing to buy just about anything when the price is right, I do that to keep my options open during extended bidding when i go through looking for bargains. Have 2 or 3 people like me doing that and it is easy to see how you could get outbid immediately on multiple lots.

I know what you're saying, but it felt more like I was bidding against hidden reserves. You may well be correct, but this was a vast array of items that were in no way related. Much of it being obscure stuff with limited mass appeal. I've bid in hundreds of these auctions over three decades, and never encountered an opening day shutout like that one. Weird.

[BigBeerGut]

Yawn
Zzzzzz

Any one can buy any thing from any one any time online. Period. Posted rules from the AH matter not.

Just decide what you will pay and bid early or late. You sound like babys churning this same topic which has no answer. Just ketchup the fact the AH makes the item avalable to you!

Stop your wining

[Johnny630]

US economic recessions are the only time I’d contemplate bidding from auctions. This market is highly over inflated ....when it comes down its going to come down big.....a couple different issues may hit at the same time. Be patient and let the folk spend their money how they want. Don’t let emotions get you....save your money up and buy all this stuff at lower levels.
If not oh well you missed it ....B/S/T