Analysis of current AH's rules regarding shill/internal/sketchy bidding practices

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Does not make it right... just stating their rationale.

I understand what you are trying to say, but honestly, that's just the AH doing what they should be doing, trying to get the most money for the consignor. The more people are bidding, competing, and raising the price, the better the AH is doing for both themselves and the interest of the consignor.

[perezfan]

Yes, and that's exactly what I want as the consignor.

As a bidder, it's a different story!

[steve B]

A local antique auction I used to go to had something similar.

They would announce just before starting that the people helping out were dealers, and were allowed to bid on items. It was mostly because without allowing them to bid they wouldn't get any qualified help. (I always figured it was because they asked friends to help since they'd be there anyway. )
Each had a specialty, and would rarely bid on any other sort of item. One was a doll dealer, and usually won. A couple of the others had shops that I'd been to and saw items for sale that they'd won a week earlier.

On the face of it it did seem a bit shady, but I never got the impression that it was anything but what it was announced as.

[Fred]

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

[ValKehl]

I read the T&Cs for all the major auction I participate in. Although I don't leave max bids very often, I NEVER leave max bids with Mile High, Heritage, and other auction houses that have similar T&Cs. But, I will leave max bids on occasion with auction houses that I consider to be very ethical AND that have T&Cs similar to REA's and LOTG's. In fact, I was traveling during the close of the recent LOTG auction, so I left a max bid on a scarce, pricey (for me) card I really wanted, even though I was pretty sure this card was consigned by LOTG's owner (I later learned that it was); and, I won this card for LESS than my max bid.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fred

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

Location, location, location.

[Buythatcard]

I always found it a little strange when I would place max bids on multiple items at Heritage only to get outbid on most of them at the exact same time. I always felt like it was automated.

[Republicaninmass]

"But (HA, or insert auction co here) is a billion dollar company, why would they need to do this"


Says the crowd

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I always found it a little strange when I would place max bids on multiple items at Heritage only to get outbid on most of them at the exact same time. I always felt like it was automated.

This is exactly what happened to me in Hunt's yesterday. The auction had just opened - I bid on a whole slew of items - and was instantly outbid on every single one! I have never had that happen before.... It's as if each lot already had a ceiling bid in place. Normally you are the high bidder for at least a short period.

I know Hunt has stated they are privy to use hidden reserves on certain items... but for every single lot (dozens actually) to receive outbids instantaneously feels like a mathematical impossibility.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Fred

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

It's that they are telling you up front. Like when I go into a store I say very loudly when I'm shoplifting, "I'm stealing this!!!!!" then walk out the door.

As long as you say it, you're good.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fred

So what's the difference between AHs allowing their own employees to bid on their own lots and what Mastro (and company) did?

Ostensibly these auction houses don't have knowledge of the bids of others.

[ullmandds]

It is just seeming more and more...to me...like AH's are like "the dealer" in vegas.

They have distinct advantages over the "players" and they win most of the time.

[buymycards]

Well, let me see if I have this straight:

1. I am bidding against the other bidders.

2. I am bidding against the employees of the auction house, some of whom are bidding on their own items.

3. I am bidding against the auction house, who is scooping up any good deals.

4. Items that I consign are competing for a limited amount of dollars with the auction house consigments and the employee consignments.

5. Heritage only charges me a 25% buyers fee for the privilege of of buying from them.

Sounds like a good deal to me. Where do I sign up?