PWCC Black Swamp crossover

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

sells...or "sells" barry????

Haven't a clue.

[toledo_mudhen]

WOW - an amazing card

absolutely correct on the question of "why on earth would anyone have that reholdered"

(I bid the $5000 on it - just cuz it was fun to do)

[Rhotchkiss]

New flip, yes. But how do you know it’s a BSF cross over?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

New flip, yes. But how do you know it’s a BSF cross over?

Because a card of that quality did not exist before the find.

[Rhotchkiss]

I hear ya Pete. And it’s in a new flip, and certainly a card of this “caliber” would not be new to the market, without fanfare. But maybe it’s a non-BSF that found its way into that holder . And re BSF, why would anyone take it out of a BSF flip? The BSF provenance proves the validity of its authenticity (and grade, I guess).

I would love to see physical evidence that this was once in a BSF flip. And I would love to see the grade on the flip. Do we have that info? Could be a huge black eye for all involved; at least (black) eye opening

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I hear ya Pete. And it’s in a new flip, and certainly a card of this “caliber” would not be new to the market, without fanfare. But maybe it’s a non-BSF that found its way into that holder . And re BSF, why would anyone take it out of a BSF flip? The BSF provenance proves the validity of its authenticity (and grade, I guess).

I would love to see physical evidence that this was once in a BSF flip. And I would love to see the grade on the flip. Do we have that info? Could be a huge black eye for all involved; at least (black) eye opening

I would think dropping an email to BODA would get all the questions answered...

[ullmandds]

It is absolutely 100% from the Black Swamp find...there is no question about it

[phikappapsi]

Already over 10k.

Probably time to go looking for a BSF 7, 7.5, with some common traits. Beyond my skills, but sure looks look a crack and resubmit with some preferential treatment.

[ullmandds]

It’s ironic how lately with all of the corruption in the hobby... provenance Is of even more importance these days ... yet there are still people out there who believe these cards are not real... and there are others like myself who don’t place as high a value on these cards because such a significant number of high-grade examples were found. So actually disassociating certain cards from the find could help their resale value...imo.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

New flip, yes. But how do you know it’s a BSF cross over?

I think just reholder - not crossover

[Rhotchkiss]

Nice, that’s the pic I was looking for. BUT, I don’t understand why someone would take it out of a BSF flip to put in another flip without the BSF designation and a new cert number. I am not a submitter, so I don’t know how it works, but a new cert# means someone cracked it out, submitted it raw, and paid substantial fees to have it graded anew, no?

It’s one thing to get rid of the BSF designation, which I don’t think makes much sense. But an entirely different thing to crack, submit, and pay for this card on a whole new review.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Nice, that’s the pic I was looking for. BUT, I don’t understand why someone would take it out of a BSF flip to put in another flip without the BSF designation and a new cert number. I am not a submitter, so I don’t know how it works, but a new cert# means someone cracked it out, submitted it raw, and paid substantial fees to have it graded anew, no?

It’s one thing to get rid of the BSF designation, which I don’t think makes much sense. But an entirely different thing to crack, submit, and pay for this card on a whole new review.

Someone could have simply sent it in for a reholder and requested a new cert # and to remove the BSF designation. I don't follow these closely but the few I've seen don't seem to command any special premium. Maybe the consignor thought it would do better without it.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Someone could have simply sent it in for a reholder and requested a new cert # and to remove the BSF designation. I don't follow these closely but the few I've seen don't seem to command any special premium. Maybe the consignor thought it would do better without it.

That could be. And Pete has suggested that perhaps the card is more valuable dissociated from the BSF -- After all, according to the PSA registry, there are 14 E98 Cobbs from the Black Swamp Find graded a PSA 9, and only 8 non-BSF E98 Red Cobb PSA 9's. But personally, I would much rather have the provenance on the flip. Interesting side note: There are 22, E98 Red Cobb (BSF and non-BSF) that are graded PSA 9, and only 10 Red Cobbs graded anything other than PSA 9 (and two are 10's); however, there are 37 designated as just "Ty Cobb" with no color association and red seems to be most the popular E98 Cobb variation. It seems like lower-grade E98 Red Cobbs should sell for a premium since they are the scarce ones!! All that said, it seems all high grade E98 red Cobbs are from BSF - whether the flip states such or not - so the PSA registry is misleading here to those who don’t know much about this issue - like me!! So I will defer to others with better knowledge.

Ok, I am done on this topic. Nice card and someone will be happy to own it

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Two problems.

1. White dots on the new one near his right arm and hip that aren't on the other make me think these aren't a match.

2. Everybody knows that the only E98's over, I think, PSA 5 are Black Swamp, so removing the BS provenance is pointless. Pretty sure the highest grade on any E98 before the find was "5"