Collectors Universe releases fourth quarter and fiscal year end earnings today

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Don’t be so sure.

I said I was not sure. I would welcome such lists. Imagine what they would do to some Registry sets like 1948 Leafs.

[CuriousGeorge]

Exactly. So you see how easy this all can be. Everyone should take a deep breath and let the process play out. If presented with irrefutable proof of five and six figure cards definitively altered and resting in PSA slabs in registry sets, I wonder how Joe is going to spin that one?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Exactly. So you see how easy this all can be. Everyone should take a deep breath and let the process play out. If presented with irrefutable proof of five and six figure cards definitively altered and resting in PSA slabs in registry sets, I wonder how Joe is going to spin that one?

They will never admit any cards are bad in their holders....

I’m still waiting for that Mastro Wagner...if that isn’t irrefutable proof that a six figure plus card is definitely altered In their holder what is??

Nothing to see here move along

[CuriousGeorge]

Johnny Boy, I know you seem to feel you have all the answers and I know how desperately you want that $10M Wagner to become worthless, but unless the owner of the card has a problem with it nothing will happen. And it certainly appears as if he has no problem.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

They will never admit any cards are bad in their holders....

I’m still waiting for that Mastro Wagner...if that isn’t irrefutable proof that a six figure plus card is definitely altered In their holder what is??

Nothing to see here move along

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Johnny Boy, I know you seem to feel you have all the answers and I know how desperately you want that $10M Wagner to become worthless, but unless the owner of the card has a problem with it nothing will happen. And it certainly appears as if he has no problem.

Much of the value of the Wagner, IMO, now lies in its notoriety. The usual rules that would apply to discounting a card to an AUTH have no application in this unique case.

[CuriousGeorge]

Of course you are correct.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much of the value of the Wagner, IMO, now lies in its notoriety. The usual rules that would apply to discounting a card to an AUTH have no application in this unique case.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much of the value of the Wagner, IMO, now lies in its notoriety. The usual rules that would apply to discounting a card to an AUTH have no application in this unique case.

If the Wagner "8" is re holdered as an "A", which is what it is, it would sell for a small fraction of an "8" value, precisely as was the case with the Plank "A" cut from the same sheet. No offense intended, but IMHO notoriety in that instance would mean *@#%.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

If the Wagner "8" is re holder as an "A", which is what it is, it would sell for a small fraction of an "8" value, precisely as was the case with the Plank "A" cut from the same sheet. No offense intended, but IMHO notoriety in that instance would mean *@#%.

As he said in the article about Gary Moser in the NY Times, Ken Kedrick was offered $10M+ for the card even after the book outlining its trimming was published. It seems like the perfect time for PSA to call his bluff and have it reholdered as AUTH ALTERED.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much of the value of the Wagner, IMO, now lies in its notoriety. The usual rules that would apply to discounting a card to an AUTH have no application in this unique case.

Agreed. That Wagner is worth a fortune, not because of the grade, but because it’s “that” Wagner. It’s poetic that PSA’s first graded card was altered, but that’s not the hook we should hang our hats on here. And, if I had $10mm I needed to invest, I think the Gretzky Wagner would be a phenomenal investment; but I admit I would not want it in any holder other than what it’s in (not for the grade but for the controversy, which is part of the allure).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lolol.

[topcat61]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much of the value of the Wagner, IMO, now lies in its notoriety. The usual rules that would apply to discounting a card to an AUTH have no application in this unique case.

I couldnt agree more -that card've value is tied to PSA and Bill Mastro. It's now well documented history just like the All-Star Cafe Wagner. It seems to me that only average people are held accountable for their actions -not companies in the same manner. It also appears that a pass is being granted to certain individuals of these companies to keep that money train rolling...Am I wrong here?

There should be one set of standards for all and pardon me, but if a guy like Joe Orlando kept getting visited by the FBI tame and again...you know, if the shoe fits.

Now, my question be for all those lawyers -If law enforcement takes notes during questioning of a suspect, do those notes fall under FOIA afterwards?

[Peter_Spaeth]

FOIA exception for investigatory privilege. It's complicated and no personal experience. 5 USC 552(b)(7).

(7) records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that the production of such law enforcement records or information (A) could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings, (B) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication, (C) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, (D) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of a confidential source, including a State, local, or foreign agency or authority or any private institution which furnished information on a confidential basis, and, in the case of a record or information compiled by criminal law enforcement authority in the course of a criminal investigation or by an agency conducting a lawful national security intelligence investigation, information furnished by a confidential source, (E) would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law, or (F) could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual;

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by topcat61

I couldnt agree more -that card've value is tied to PSA and Bill Mastro. It's now well documented history just like the All-Star Cafe Wagner. It seems to me that only average people are held accountable for their actions -not companies in the same manner. It also appears that a pass is being granted to certain individuals of these companies to keep that money train rolling...Am I wrong here?

There should be one set of standards for all and pardon me, but if a guy like Joe Orlando kept getting visited by the FBI tame and again...you know, if the shoe fits.

Now, my question be for all those lawyers -If law enforcement takes notes during questioning of a suspect, do those notes fall under FOIA afterwards?

Nominated for post of the year.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by topcat61

I couldnt agree more -that card've value is tied to PSA and Bill Mastro. It's now well documented history just like the All-Star Cafe Wagner. It seems to me that only average people are held accountable for their actions -not companies in the same manner. It also appears that a pass is being granted to certain individuals of these companies to keep that money train rolling...Am I wrong here?

There should be one set of standards for all and pardon me, but if a guy like Joe Orlando kept getting visited by the FBI tame and again...you know, if the shoe fits.

Now, my question be for all those lawyers -If law enforcement takes notes during questioning of a suspect, do those notes fall under FOIA afterwards?

I'll take a shot at FOIA question. From 1975-80 I worked in the office of the Department of Justice that processed administrative appeals from denials by the FBI for access to its records. In that capacity, I read boatloads of FBI investigative files.

There were never any agent's notes. At least back in the day, any such notes were converted to a typed statement (302) that was included in the file and I assume the notes then destroyed. [I assume this process has now been computerized.] So, the real question is whether any such Orlando 302s could be obtained by a third party under FOIA.

I think the answer is likely 'no.' As to pending investigations, those records are entirely exempt from access. See (b)(7)(A) in Peter's post. As to closed investigations, the problem is privacy. See (b)(7)(C). Unless Orlando waives his privacy interest, the records would not be available to any third party. There are exceptions for enormous public interest (think JFK assassination files) and maybe in the situation where the information is already in the public domain, as where Orlando had testified at trial.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Johnny Boy, I know you seem to feel you have all the answers and I know how desperately you want that $10M Wagner to become worthless, but unless the owner of the card has a problem with it nothing will happen. And it certainly appears as if he has no problem.

I was being Facetious....of course he wouldn’t come forward he doesn’t want his card to be worthless. Why battle PSA when he knows he could get millions if he was to sell the card as is in auction.

PSA always slivers away just as the card doctors.....nothing is going to change.

[CuriousGeorge]

How do you know nothing is going to change Johnny?

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I was being Facetious....of course he wouldn’t come forward he doesn’t want his card to be worthless. Why battle PSA when he knows he could get millions if he was to sell the card as is in auction.

PSA always slivers away just as the card doctors.....nothing is going to change.

[Republicaninmass]

SHATTERED earnings