Everyone's favorite auction house

[BigBeerGut]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

So why do you think it's debatable that an attempt to remove a stain was done deceptively? And why is that even relevant to whether or not you adhere to your own policy?

I haven't accused any one of fraudulent activity, and don't believe there is necessarily anything wrong with some of the outed cards that have simply been cleaned up a little.

But it does seem disingenuous in my opinion to put out a statement saying if you discover a card in your auction has been altered you will pull it immediately, only to leave one that has been up in your next auction.

Jesse:
This stuff can not be stopped. Your wasting your time on all this research just forgot it no one cares about your outings and furthermore you are making no money with it. No one cares. Al emailed all bidder on E95 cobb and 1 guy cancels. Conservation is not coming it is here. You tracking old sales etc just makes you look like a baby. Bid or move on stop being a detective until you can get yourself paid with it. Also: what is your real name? I have never seen a name with @%& characters in it! You comment on Al's auction house and do not post your real name? 3000+ posts ....
Just my 10 cents worth
Everyone complaining about the situation but no leaders emerging to help the cause. Even the key board members just complain and make jokes there
is no change coming.

The Spaeth Guy is right Stuff Trumps All even reconditioned stuff

[frankbmd]

I have no gripe with Jesse, Al, Bob or Leon.

All are human and all make mistakes, even Al.

What gets my goat, if you haven’t figured it out, is the angst of the board members created when anyone dares to point out an issue with LOTG.

Until I see authenticated () video evidence I refuse to believe that Al can either walk on water or that he is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. (Hi Al)

Everyone in the hobby can improve and no one should be given a free pass.

Open discussion is beneficial. Being a lone dissenting matador in a bull ring with 87 hungry bulls is not.

I wish everyone well, including myself.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I have no gripe with Jesse, Al, Bob or Leon.

All are human and all make mistakes, even Al.

What gets my goat, if you haven’t figured it out, is the angst of the board members created when anyone dares to point out an issue with LOTG.

Until I see authenticated () video evidence I refuse to believe that Al can either walk on water or that he is one of the four horseman of the apocalypse. (Hi Al)

Everyone in the hobby can improve and no one should be given a free pass.

Open discussion is beneficial. Being a lone dissenting matador in a ball ring with 87 hungry bulls is not.

I wish everyone well, including myself.

Holy moly, Frank!

I 100% agree with you - thank you!

[drcy]

I don't agree with the OP on everything, but I don't think he's said anything even close to being bannable. A chat board will have, and should have, a variety of opinions and takes, some unpopular. His comments are about the cleaning of collectibles, which, while many don't agree with his conclusions, are far from out of topic. And, while I disagree with one half of his argument, the other half was a fair point to bring to discussion and one can't logically argue otherwise. (And me disagreeing with an argument is far from reason for me to think someone should be banned or the post not posted). And, in fact, his original post led to a fruitful discussion on the topic of cleaning collectibles.

Though, yes, I can think of things that would be bannable, or 'timeoutable,' probably including someone who constantly starts posts completely off topic threads, repeatedly factually lies about a seller or is a constant temperamental a-hole in the extreme (timeout may suffice there).

I thought one recent poster's arguments on a recent hot topic were terrible and his repeated voicing of them annoying (and some wondered if he had ulterior motives), but it didn't even cross my mind that he should be banned or that he broke any written or unwritten chatboard rules. And I and others rebutted the arguments. It was all part of debate on a chatboard, and it's good for the mind to read opposing arguments. Echo chambers are no good, even (or perhaps especially) when you agree with what is said.

[timn1]

As usual I agree with David. Nothing bannable here by a long shot.

The loyalty to LOTG on the part of many members here is easy to understand. We think of it as an oasis we can trust, especially in the current sh$tshow. It doesn't mean we think Al is incapable of making a call (in a difficult situation that probably had no ideal solution) that can be second-guessed. But it means we have a pretty high bar of proof, and we don't like the feeling that those criticizing Al might be acting out of some obscure personal grudge.

Then when we express that opinion, we get called a "lynch mob" and told that we think Al walks on water - that imagery is ridiculous. We are just expressing our views, exactly the same as those who are questioning his decisions. As long as it doesn't get personal (which unfortunately it has in a couple of cases in this thread, on both sides), that is what open discussion involves.

IOW, if you post an iconoclastic opinion here, that's your prerogative and your right - but how can you then complain about being disagreed with? Take it like an adult.

Tim

Originally Posted by drcy

I don't agree with the OP on everything, but I don't think he's said anything even close to being bannable. A chat board will have, and should have, a variety of opinions and takes, some unpopular. His comments are about the cleaning of collectibles, which, while many don't agree with his conclusions, are far from out of topic. And, while I disagree with one half of his argument, the other half was a fair point to bring to discussion and one can't logically argue otherwise. (And me disagreeing with an argument is far from reason for me to think someone should be banned or the post not posted). And, in fact, his original post led to a fruitful discussion on the topic of cleaning collectibles.

Though, yes, I can think of things that would be bannable, or 'timeoutable,' probably including someone who constantly starts posts completely off topic threads, repeatedly factually lies about a seller or is a constant temperamental a-hole in the extreme (timeout may suffice there).

I thought one's recent poster arguments on a recent hot topic were terrible and his repeated voicing of them annoying (and some wondered if he had ulterior motives), but it didn't even cross my mind that he should be banned or that he broke any written or unwritten chatboard rules. And I and others rebutted the arguments. It was all part of debate on a chatboard, and it's good for the mind to read opposing arguments. Echo chambers are no good, even when you agree with what is said.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut

Jesse:
This stuff can not be stopped. Your wasting your time on all this research just forgot it no one cares about your outings and furthermore you are making no money with it. No one cares. Al emailed all bidder on E95 cobb and 1 guy cancels. Conservation is not coming it is here. You tracking old sales etc just makes you look like a baby. Bid or move on stop being a detective until you can get yourself paid with it. Also: what is your real name? I have never seen a name with @%& characters in it! You comment on Al's auction house and do not post your real name? 3000+ posts ....
Just my 10 cents worth
Everyone complaining about the situation but no leaders emerging to help the cause. Even the key board members just complain and make jokes there
is no change coming.

The Spaeth Guy is right Stuff Trumps All even reconditioned stuff

Regarding the portion of the quote in bold...

I think that a lot of people want to do something positive, but aren't sure how to actually fight corruption. I believe many are wanting Law Enforcement to do it's job, make a bold statement, and bring justice to those who've been defrauding us for years.

But to answer your concern more directly, the absolute best way we can stand up to help the cause is to...

A. Stop doing business with known shady dealers (PWCC, HawkDynasty, cccardfactory, LORDSTANLEY2012, etc.) Stop feeding them money and consignments!

B. Stop submitting cards to PSA. The only way they'll ever change is when the money flow lessens. They are failing at their job, and have no plan to fix it. They blame the problem on us (and those who have uncovered this massive fraud). They take zero responsibility, and act like we are at fault by pointing out thousands of indisputable alterations which have garnered numerical grades. They delete posts from their board, which speak the truth, but don't fit with their myopic fan base.

So if we really want to instill change, we must do so with our wallets. That's the one small thing that I am doing. If everyone who cares about the hobby did it, it might not be so small. Stop feeding the corruption... it's the only way to show we have a voice.

Let's focus our efforts towards the real evil, and not legitimize a misguided vendetta against an ethical AH who personally reaches out to every prospective bidder when a last-minute issue arises. PSA's simple response would've been to block the "complainers". I just wish every AH/Dealer/Ebay Seller was half as communicative, honest and forthright as Al.