Everyone's favorite auction house

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by the-illini

I wish Jesse applied the same diligence in rooting out issues to his own consignments as he does to every consignment to LOTG.

I do not own and operate an auction house that pledged to carefully review all cards under magnification worth over $500 and withdraw any card determined to be altered immediately.

I did not apply any diligence in rooting out LOTG issues. Both were pointed out to me privately by a collector who did not want his or her name associated with the issue. Probably due to the mob mentality around here, and responses like this and the ones above.

The alterations on the E95 and T3 Cobb are quite similar. Something was removed, and the card was damaged in the process. Both received numerical grades afterwards. Regardless of the AH selling, or timing and placement of the disclosure, there were plenty here saying the T3 Cobb did not belong in that 2 holder. PSA agreed. I have not seen anyone say the E95 Cobb doesn't belong in its 3 holder.

I know nothing about the market for tin advertising signs, and what's considered acceptable. I do find it quite interesting that someone was able to clean it using some method that experts around here seem to agree is fine, and add 10k of value in a few months.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I do not own and operate an auction house that pledged to carefully review all cards under magnification worth over $500 and withdraw any card determined to be altered immediately.

I did not apply any diligence in rooting out LOTG issues. Both were pointed out to me privately by a collector who did not want his or her name associated with the issue. Probably due to the mob mentality around here, and responses like this and the ones above.

The alterations on the E95 and T3 Cobb are quite similar. Something was removed, and the card was damaged in the process. Both received numerical grades afterwards. Regardless of the AH selling, or timing and placement of the disclosure, there were plenty here saying the T3 Cobb did not belong in that 2 holder. PSA agreed. I have not seen anyone say the E95 Cobb doesn't belong in its 3 holder.

I know nothing about the market for tin advertising signs, and what's considered acceptable. I do find it quite interesting that someone was able to clean it using some method that experts around here seem to agree is fine, and add 10k of value in a few months.

Just curious - does this same collector point out issues from other auction houses to you?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Just curious - does this same collector point out issues from other auction houses to you?

I have had hobby related discussions with many collectors over the years offline, including some regarding issues at various auction houses.

If something like this had happened at any other AH I doubt anyone would have had to point it out to me privately as there would already be a thread created with several posts calling out the hypocrisy.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I have had hobby related discussions with many collectors over the years offline, including some regarding issues at various auction houses.

If something like this had happened at any other AH I doubt anyone would have had to point it out to me privately as there would already be a thread created with several posts calling out the hypocrisy.

So in other words no, he/she does not contact you privately to out issues with any other auction house but LOTG.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I know nothing about the market for tin advertising signs, and what's considered acceptable. I do find it quite interesting that someone was able to clean it using some method that experts around here seem to agree is fine, and add 10k of value in a few months.

No kidding! A lot of guys are going to be taking a closer look at their tin signs!

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

No kidding! A lot of guys are going to be taking a closer look at their tin signs!

No, they won't. This is nothing new to the actual people who collect these types of items, with nothing brought forth in this thread surprising or "interesting".

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

No, they won't. This is nothing new to the actual people who collect these types of items, with nothing brought forth in this thread surprising or "interesting".

please do not project your biased view of a great guy onto everyone else reading this thread. there are plenty of surprising and interesting points. maybe you just do not want to see them.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

please do not project your biased view of a great guy onto everyone else reading this thread. there are plenty of surprising and interesting points. maybe you just do not want to see them.

I have no clue what you're going on about... and I don't think you understood my post. Jessie and Hank were surprised by a sign being cleaned. As I mentioned, I, and others who collect said items, were not. Its no crime to wipe down an item like the sign in question, literally every antique dealer on earth wipes off or cleans their items. Its called being smart, and showing the pieces in their best light. Altering, restoring or using any kind of chemicals, of course its a no no... but again, to people that collect these items, this knowledge is common sense and ancient history. So no, the auction house in question did absolutely nothing wrong.

I think you owe me an apology

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

I don't think you understood my post. Jessie and Hank were surprised by a sign being cleaned. As I mentioned, I, and others who collect said items, were not. Its no crime to wipe down an item like the sign in question, literally every antique dealer on earth wipes off or cleans their items. Its called being smart, and showing the pieces in their best light. Altering, restoring or using any kind of chemicals, of course its a no no... but again, to people that collect these items, this knowledge is common sense and ancient history. So no, the auction house in question did absolutely nothing wrong.

I was "surprised"--where did you get that? I guess you didn't actually read my posts, including this: "I'm a memorabilia guy, and anybody is welcome to clean things before they sell them to me." Everything I said was in support of what was done to the piece. As a memorabilia dealer for many years, I always cleaned my items if they needed it. But since you are the self-styled expert on this matter, please tell me what chemicals are allowed and which are not. A poster mentioned applying oil or wax to "seal" a tin piece. I would call those chemicals, but is this OK?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

No, they won't. This is nothing new to the actual people who collect these types of items, with nothing brought forth in this thread surprising or "interesting".

I suspect the collector who consigned the sign to REA would disagree. Assuming he or she was an actual person who collects these types of items.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

No, they won't. This is nothing new to the actual people who collect these types of items, with nothing brought forth in this thread surprising or "interesting".

Oh, I think the REA consignor will find it most interesting that he appears to have left ten large on the table. I would think REA would find it interesting, also.

[36GoudeyMan]

A key element of fraud is that the perpetrator tries to ensure that his victim is uninformed or falsely informed. LOTG, from what I can tell, made disclosures in as timely a manner as it could under the circumstances. I believe that it is appropriate to make disclosures, fully and timely whenever possible, and allow the informed buyer/bidder to make an informed judgment about whether or not he/she/they want to bid, retract the bid, or something else. The key here is that the bidders were informed in time to make informed judgments about their bids. Why should the bidders be deprived of the chance to bid on the lot(s) once they were told the updated, more complete information by LOTG? Why should the prospective buyers be deprived of the opportunity to be (and act like) informed buyers? LOTG did what they could; they acted proactively; they did nothing wrong here.

[JackW]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Oh, I think the REA consignor will find it most interesting that he appears to have left ten large on the table. I would think REA would find it interesting, also.

I think that if the apparent restoration to that sign could have been accomplished with nothing but distilled water and cotton balls, both the consignor to REA or REA itself would have performed the restoration or hired someone to do it.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by JackW

I think that if the apparent restoration to that sign could have been accomplished with nothing but distilled water and cotton balls, both the consignor to REA or REA itself would have performed the restoration or hired someone to do it.

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself, heck of a transformation there based on the photos. Apparently, we have a true expert on tin signs weighing in now, perhaps he'll tell us whether he thinks that was possible with just a wipe-down.