Let's discuss conspiracies and a billion dollar fraud

[Rhotchkiss]

The card market will crash, and so eventually will the economy (and the latter may have more effect on the former than this scandal). And like the economy, the value of cards will eventually rebound. Cards have gone up in value consistently over many decades- there have been peaks and valleys, but each peak is higher than the last (like stocks, real estate, etc). If you buy the right cards and you are long on those cards, I think “collectors” will do just fine. The question is: what are the “right cards”? That’s a subject for another thread.

[Ronnie73]

I am also an old school collector that doesn't need a company to tell me how to feel about a card. What I think the problem is, is too many people got caught up in needing the best card out there. I get it. It's no different than wanting the biggest house on your street. Registries have probably done more harm than good. It's so temping. I couldn't tell you how many times I'd look at a 1960+ set and make a plan to build the best set and then throw the idea in the trash because I'd come to my senses knowing it's a bad investment. Obviously many haven't been that lucky to do the same.

As far as telling collectors to boycott the hobby, sorry but that will never happen. The people in the hobby that lost money are the ones that are the most upset. Many of us didn't get caught up in the grading game and we are doing just fine.

Lastly, here's a few tips for everyone. Learn the difference between true rarity and manufactured rarity. Learn to not factor in grade when determining rarity. Learn that when something says limited edition or collectors edition, it's not a good investment. Learn to enjoy the hobby for what it once was.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

I am also an old school collector that doesn't need a company to tell me how to feel about a card. What I think the problem is, is too many people got caught up in needing the best card out there. I get it. It's no different than wanting the biggest house on your street. Registries have probably done more harm than good. It's so temping. I couldn't tell you how many times I'd look at a 1960+ set and make a plan to build the best set and then throw the idea in the trash because I'd come to my senses knowing it's a bad investment. Obviously many haven't been that lucky to do the same.

As far as telling collectors to boycott the hobby, sorry but that will never happen. The people in the hobby that lost money are the ones that are the most upset. Many of us didn't get caught up in the grading game and we are doing just fine.

Lastly, here's a few tips for everyone. Learn the difference between true rarity and manufactured rarity. Learn to not factor in grade when determining rarity. Learn that when something says limited edition or collectors edition, it's not a good investment. Learn to enjoy the hobby for what it once was.

Well stated, Ron..... spoken by a true BB card collector.

As many of you that know me, know I have many completed sets (and sub-sets) of Sportscards from 1887 to 1987.
Less than 1 % of the cards in my entire collection are "Graded". I love the history of BB, and how it is reflected by many of the BB cards
which I collect. Researching how certain BB cards were printed, and how and where they were distributed. Which ones are rare, and who
do I contact to acquire the rare ones. This is how I derive enjoyment from this hobby.....no stress, no mess. And, most of all, all the fine
people I have met in the process, which have become life-long friends.

I seldom spend some "Big $$$$" on Graded cards. And in recent years I will if it's a card I need to complete (or upgrade) a set. Here are
4 examples of such purchases. Note that these cards are graded "A"….which stands for AWESOME and AFFORDABLE


.
.





TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Exhibitman]

OP is a rather broad brush. You hate the hobby and think everyone is a crook? Then quit. Life's too short. Buh-Bye.

The scandal doesn't affect my collection at all since nearly every alteration-worthy card I have was self-submitted over the years. My focus now is on cards of my childhood (the seventies) and I had a blast at the National this year assiduously avoiding graded cards. I hope to continue that.

The hobby is what you make of it. I collected when people were happy to get rid of old cards, I will collect long after the TPG scandals are old news (and hopefully the culprits are in jail).

[mouschi]

Don't let the crooks in this hobby ruin collecting for you. That would be like swearing off of cars because of the carjackers.

Our hobby is not just going to survive this; it is going to continue to thrive. Will there be a market correction in some facets of it? Surely, but our hobby is nearly 150 years old. It has survived so, so much.

People view sports cards as collectibles, history, crown jewels, investments, art, nostalgia and a way to get closer to the game. There is way too much to love about our hobby than to just walk away, though I suspect some will. But I'm a believer that more will come to it than walk away.

[samosa4u]

A few of you mention the market crashing - please explain specifically what you mean by this. Are you saying that one day I'm going to wake up and see the card prices come crashing down, like what happened to Bear Stearns and the other investment banks over ten years ago? If so, then here is what I have to say to you: DREAM ON!

Look, over the past twenty years, the US economy has gone through all kinds of crazy problems. Do you think when these things were happening, mid-grade 51' Bowman Mantles were going for $500 or even $1,000? See what I mean? Sure, there are cooling down periods, but then prices end up rebounding and reaching new highs.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

A few of you mention the market crashing - please explain specifically what you mean by this. Are you saying that one day I'm going to wake up and see the card prices come crashing down, like what happened to Bear Stearns and the other investment banks over ten years ago? If so, then here is what I have to say to you: DREAM ON!

Look, over the past twenty years, the US economy has gone through all kinds of crazy problems. Do you think when these things were happening, mid-grade 51' Bowman Mantles were going for $500 or even $1,000? See what I mean? Sure, there are cooling down periods, but then prices end up rebounding and reaching new highs.

agreed, and this isn't what I want either.

I just want collectors to stand up to this industry. That includes ALL the selling platforms and TPG's that don't give a S**t and are clearly crooked. You do that by not supporting their product or service and hurt them where it counts. In their pocketbook.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

OP is a rather broad brush. You hate the hobby and think everyone is a crook? Then quit. Life's too short. Buh-Bye.

The scandal doesn't affect my collection at all since nearly every alteration-worthy card I have was self-submitted over the years. My focus now is on cards of my childhood (the seventies) and I had a blast at the National this year assiduously avoiding graded cards. I hope to continue that.

The hobby is what you make of it. I collected when people were happy to get rid of old cards, I will collect long after the TPG scandals are old news (and hopefully the culprits are in jail).

This.

Look, I hate to see folks getting scammed and unethical jerks making a killing with this. But I fail to see how this should cause me to give up on a hobby I've enjoyed for 60 years. My interests are in building sets I enjoy using raw and lower-to-mid condition cards.

If anyone is waiting for a mass exodus from the hobby by hordes of collectors due to the hits taken by high-end investors they are going to be disappointed.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

The card market will crash, and so eventually will the economy (and the latter may have more effect on the former than this scandal). And like the economy, the value of cards will eventually rebound. Cards have gone up in value consistently over many decades- there have been peaks and valleys, but each peak is higher than the last (like stocks, real estate, etc). If you buy the right cards and you are long on those cards, I think “collectors” will do just fine. The question is: what are the “right cards”? That’s a subject for another thread.

Exactly :-) well put !