PSA: from Experts who thwart "wack jobs" to unappreciated, human-based opinion givers

[swarmee]

Aren't we getting close to their quarterly financial statement?

Also, my liquidation sales are still going nuts. You can get most of these modern Bobby Jones cards raw for $1...but in a PSA 10, you have immediate buyers at $50. ;-) Even more, actually, since these were purchased on eBay with COMC's crosslisting markups.

[Johnny630]

The time has come to be PSA card poor and cash Rich!!

Sell them Slabs Hand Over Fist Before it’s to late.

[Just.Rachel]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

The time has come to be PSA card poor and cash Rich!!



Sell them Slabs Hand Over Fist Before it’s to late.

.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[slidekellyslide]

Of course this is a concerted effort to move the goal posts. Has anyone heard a peep from any of the PSA registry whales yet?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Of course this is a concerted effort to move the goal posts. Has anyone heard a peep from any of the PSA registry whales yet?

Crickets ....

If anything they want to silence this.......They have so much money tied up in it they took the bait hook line and sinker from PSA…… Completely brainwashed

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Just.Rachel

.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Turn those machines back on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Aren't we getting close to their quarterly financial statement?

Their fiscal year ended on June 30, 2019, so they are actually in the middle of their annual financial audit by their outside auditors. In prior years the auditors were Grant Thornton out of Newport Beach, CA. Would assume they didn't change for this year and are using the same firm. Based on prior years, all of their year-end financials and statements are usually out by sometime in September/October, so it shouldn't be too much longer.

Of particular interest will be the amount of warranty reserve they show on the company books for this year end. Based on the numbers of altered/doctored cards thought to be sitting in numerically graded PSA holders, as speculated on by many on here and the BO boards, the potential warranty claims that could be made against PSA could be in the millions of dollars. Should be interesting to finally see what they ended up showing on their financials as their warranty reserve amount, and that the auditors agreed to let them use. If you look at their full annual report once it is up online also (as a publicly traded company this all goes out for public viewing), it will be interesting to see what, if anything, it mentions about these current issues. It should give everyone an insight into their thinking and how they are trying to present this to their auditors and others in the financial community.

They may remove past comments and statements from their sites, and be completely silent to the collecting community about all the issues going on currently, but that won't work when it comes to their outside auditors and requirements of the SEC and the investing community.

I've asked the question if there is anyone yet that has gone back to PSA with a suspected altered/doctored card to take them up on their warranty, and have heard nothing. I did hear that PWCC was refunding buyers of suspect cards their money back when such cards were returned to them, and then they were turning those suspect cards over to the FBI as part of the ongoing investigation. Had also heard that PSA was possibly telling buyers of such suspect cards to also go back the sellers also, and not bring the suspect cards to them. I would love to hear what happened if someone with a suspected doctored card in a PSA holder didn't go back to a seller, like PWCC, and went to PSA instead and demanded they uphold their warranty guarantee. What would PSA say and do?!?!?

[drcy]

I hope for a hobby movement for a more realistic understanding of grading, so I actually see Joe's rewriting of it to be good. He states that grading is subjective and full of margins of error, and I hope for the hobby to view it as that. If you can often quote the President of CU himself as to the subjectivity, margin of error and errors, that would serve the purpose.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by drcy

I hope for a hobby movement for a more realistic understanding of grading, so I actually see Joe's rewriting of it to be good. He states that grading is subjective and full of margins of error, and I hope for the hobby to view it as that. If you can often quote the President of CU himself as to the subjectivity, margin of error and errors, that would serve the purpose.

I hope the Easter Bunny comes in April too.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by drcy

I hope for a hobby movement for a more realistic understanding of grading, so I actually see Joe's rewriting of it to be good. He states that grading is subjective and full of margins of error, and I hope for the hobby to view it as that. If you can often quote the President of CU himself as to the subjectivity, margin of error and errors, that would serve the purpose.

The grade may be subjective, but altered/unaltered, even with the gray areas of what's acceptable, really isn't.

I'd hope they get their act together on that aspect at least. But that probably isn't possible with 30 seconds of inspection.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by steve B

The grade may be subjective, but altered/unaltered, even with the gray areas of what's acceptable, really isn't.

I'd hope they get their act together on that aspect at least. But that probably isn't possible with 30 seconds of inspection.

That is true. I was thinking about grading. The inability to identify alterations is another matter. The gade is a matter of opinion, the existence or non-existence of alterations is a matter of fact. Certainly, there will be some errors in judging that latter, but it had better be very small in percentage or you shouldn't be in the business . . . And whether or not PSA should be in that business is, of course, an ongoing question for some.

Duly note that Joe's letter went down as poorly on the CU forum as here.

[trambo]

Originally Posted by BobC

Their fiscal year ended on June 30, 2019, so they are actually in the middle of their annual financial audit by their outside auditors. In prior years the auditors were Grant Thornton out of Newport Beach, CA. Would assume they didn't change for this year and are using the same firm. Based on prior years, all of their year-end financials and statements are usually out by sometime in September/October, so it shouldn't be too much longer.

Of particular interest will be the amount of warranty reserve they show on the company books for this year end. Based on the numbers of altered/doctored cards thought to be sitting in numerically graded PSA holders, as speculated on by many on here and the BO boards, the potential warranty claims that could be made against PSA could be in the millions of dollars. Should be interesting to finally see what they ended up showing on their financials as their warranty reserve amount, and that the auditors agreed to let them use. If you look at their full annual report once it is up online also (as a publicly traded company this all goes out for public viewing), it will be interesting to see what, if anything, it mentions about these current issues. It should give everyone an insight into their thinking and how they are trying to present this to their auditors and others in the financial community.

They may remove past comments and statements from their sites, and be completely silent to the collecting community about all the issues going on currently, but that won't work when it comes to their outside auditors and requirements of the SEC and the investing community.

I've asked the question if there is anyone yet that has gone back to PSA with a suspected altered/doctored card to take them up on their warranty, and have heard nothing. I did hear that PWCC was refunding buyers of suspect cards their money back when such cards were returned to them, and then they were turning those suspect cards over to the FBI as part of the ongoing investigation. Had also heard that PSA was possibly telling buyers of such suspect cards to also go back the sellers also, and not bring the suspect cards to them. I would love to hear what happened if someone with a suspected doctored card in a PSA holder didn't go back to a seller, like PWCC, and went to PSA instead and demanded they uphold their warranty guarantee. What would PSA say and do?!?!?

If you think you'll get a bunch of detail regarding a change of warranty reserve, you're likely going to be disappointed. My guess is they will increase the reserve but it likely won't be material enough to warrant much, if any, disclosure. I can't imagine they would do any more than the bare minimum with disclosures but whatever they disclose, it will have been opined upon by the CPA firm. It'll be interesting to read regardless!

(BTW-I spent 6 1/2 years w/one of the big CPA firms as an auditor)

[Yoda]

I still feel there is or was some kind of fix in place between Moser, PWCC and PSA. Exactly how it was organized or the mechanics of the operation, of course, I have no idea.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I still feel there is or was some kind of fix in place between Moser, PWCC and PSA. Exactly how it was organized or the mechanics of the operation, of course, I have no idea.

Agree...

Hopefully law enforcement can dive deep, sort it all out, and issue punishments that are commensurate with the respective levels of fraud and deception.

[Case12]

My career is in Artificial Intelligence (no, not robots). This sounds like a great business model. Thousands times faster, reliable and accurate. Google already has software and hardware availible for cheap (garage geek cheap). We just need some garage geeks at a TPA to do some work. This is not SciFi, it's happening today. For this application it would be no bigger than a home scanner. Gosh....where's my application for a patent :-)

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by Case12

My career is in Artificial Intelligence (no, not robots). This sounds like a great business model. Thousands times faster, reliable and accurate. Google already has software and hardware availible for cheap (garage geek cheap). We just need some garage geeks at a TPA to do some work. This is not SciFi, it's happening today. For this application it would be no bigger than a home scanner. Gosh....where's my application for a patent :-)

I've kind of wondered if PSA, etc aren't using (or developing?) AI because its a serious threat to their business model.

I'm under the impression that in the near future the technology will exist that will allow an app to grade cards (or something similar already exists as you say). Right now you need some actual hardware to make it work which prevents its use from being widespread, but possibly in a few years everything you'd physically need will come bundled with smart phones or tablets.

When that happens, we won't need slabs or TPGs anymore. You'll have an app that will grade the card and record every physical detail about it to the minutest level. Tiny variations in the grain of the cardboard or something like that can be recorded by the extremely high resolution cameras of tomorrow and act as a kind of "fingerprint" for the card, tying the physical card in your hand to the registered grade. When you sell the card on Ebay (or wherever) the seller can check the card on the App. Then when it arrives in the mail they can use the app to confirm the card is the same one in the same condition.

There are some issues with that business model, like what happens if someone damages a card after they've graded it using the app and then sell it without disclosing that change, but I think they could be dealt wit. It'd be way cheaper and easier to use than PSA or any other grading company and could put them out of business.