USPS lost my card submission to SGC and denied my insurance claim

[C-mack]

How worried should I be?

My package made it to Boca Raton June 27th and was " lost " on the 28th in the building. After talking with everyone I could I was told to file a claim July 18th ,which I did... yesterday my claim was denied for the 5k ( the amount I bought)..i filed a appeal but how worried should i be that might be out my cards and money?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why was it denied?

[x2drich2000]

What was the reason they gave for the denial?

[chriskim]

You might want to post what u submitted so we can all keep an eye out for u.

[C-mack]

They said they needed more proof of value ...I gave them pics of the cards in PSA holders ( was crossing them over) and VCP screen shots...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by C-mack

They said they needed more proof of value ...I gave them pics of the cards in PSA holders ( was crossing them over) and VCP screen shots...

Why not submit records of your purchases? That's what they probably need.

[packs]

I'll never understand their stance on this crap. If they have questions about value, they should be asked at the time the insurance is purchased, not when there's a problem after the fact.

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why not submit records of your purchases? That's what they probably need.

I did that this go around but didnt think it was necessary since they sold me insurance without me proving any of that amount and they were the ones who lost it

[jhs5120]

It’s absurd that USPS will sell you any amount of insurance, but only pays out on the purchase price. Send them receipts of the purchase price and hopefully they process. Good luck!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I'll never understand their stance on this crap. If they have questions about value, they should be asked at the time the insurance is purchased, not when there's a problem after the fact.

Not practical. Are you going to bring in your documentation to the post office every time you mail something, or have a review process every time you fill out a mail form online?

[D. Bergin]

So, if I understand this right, when you send in submissions to any grading company, because you are not actually selling or buying from them, if you don't have a previous purchase record, you are essentially out of luck if the package gets lost?

What about stuff that has been in your collection a long time, stuff from big group lots or collection purchases. Stuff you might have originally bought 20 years ago and didn't think there was a reason to keep the receipt on record?

Could you submit your submission form with estimated values?

[samosa4u]

What do you mean that your parcel was "lost in the building?" Was this inside a sorting place? What did it say on the USPS tracking?

[benjulmag]

I don't understand how the USPS can legally refuse to pay you for your declared value when they lost the item. The price you paid for the coverage was based on the declared value, so the cost you paid to buy the item(s) I would think would be irrelevant. Do they understand the item was lost, as opposed to damaged? The two are very different circumstances with the latter being the target of scam artists who insure junk for high amounts, then claim they were damaged in transit.

Is there any fine print to the coverage, and if so what does it say?

[frankbmd]

When shipping some old German china (older than most prewar baseball cards) I inquired about purchasing USPS insurance and about heaven forbid how to value the amount of insurance needed.

I was told at the post office that if I needed to file a claim for loss or breakage that an expert third party appraisal would be necessary to settle the claim. I was in northern Wisconsin at the time in a rural area that was not teeming with antique German china experts. Nor did I have any purchase record for the china which was my mother's and she had been dead for at least 5 years. Getting an appraisal in Chicago or Minneapolis was not a viable option so I shipped the well packed china and sent it without insurance in three separate lots. Once the first lot arrived safely, I shipped the second and then the third when the second arrived. This incident reinforced my opinions about the value of USPS insurance. It seems to be more of a feel good product for the sender, but watch out if there is a problem.

In your case the documentation on the cards in the PSA holders with your records of purchase prices, one would think, should suffice.

I wonder, if in light of the current scandal involving PSA, whether USPS no longer considers PSA a valid source to render a an expert third party appraisal.

Rick (buymycards on the forum), a retired postmaster, usually chimes in on this type of thread, but if I were you, I would reach out to him via PM on how to proceed at this point.

Good luck.

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

What do you mean that your parcel was "lost in the building?" Was this inside a sorting place? What did it say on the USPS tracking?

The package made pass sorting and to the actual post office and scanned and marked ready to pick up but when SGC went they could not find the package ..there was a signature require but the clerk doesnt know where she put it or what happen after the scan ( her exact words)

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not practical. Are you going to bring in your documentation to the post office every time you mail something, or have a review process every time you fill out a mail form online?

Uhhh, yeah, if it means getting my pay out when the item is lost. You're suggesting paying for insurance that doesn't really exist is more practical?

[Bicem]

Terrible. This is a big reason that I have a private insurance policy on my collection, covers in transit through the mail, no need to ever purchase USPS insurance.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by C-mack

The package made pass sorting and to the actual post office and scanned and marked ready to pick up but when SGC went they could not find the package ..there was a signature require but the clerk doesnt know where she put it or what happen after the scan ( her exact words)

Was there any label on the package that said "sports cards?" Also, was the value stated on the label?

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Was there any label on the package that said "sports cards?" Also, was the value stated on the label?

Nope used a Priority flat rate box...with only addresses marked with no mention of value

[CTDean]

I have made two insurance claims in the last few years and was paid within a week both times. For proof of current value I downloaded a recent auction result or sale price of an item like my damaged piece. For ungraded cards it
might be a little tougher. Try to find sold cards that match your cards condition and for each cards value on the submission form.

Since your package was scanned at the Post Office and then went missing I
would also file a form with the USPS Postal Inspectors in D.C. The forms are
available on their website. Postal Inspectors will forward your complaint to
the Postmaster at the site of the lost package and he will have some paperwork to do. This has worked for me three times when carriers failed to
scan an insured package upon delivery.

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by CTDean

I have made two insurance claims in the last few years and was paid within a week both times. For proof of current value I downloaded a recent auction result or sale price of an item like my damaged piece. For ungraded cards it
might be a little tougher. Try to find sold cards that match your cards condition and for each cards value on the submission form.

Since your package was scanned at the Post Office and then went missing I
would also file a form with the USPS Postal Inspectors in D.C. The forms are
available on their website. Postal Inspectors will forward your complaint to
the Postmaster at the site of the lost package and he will have some paperwork to do. This has worked for me three times when carriers failed to
scan an insured package upon delivery.

I talked to the internal affairs office in Miami who opened a case since a clerk scanned the package who then got in touch with the person in charge , he searched the building and told me "sorry but I have no clue where it went" and to just check my mail daily incase its returned / file the claim. I also filed a lost mail case since they said that could help

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by C-mack

I talked to the internal affairs office in Miami who opened a case since a clerk scanned the package who then got in touch with the person in charge , he searched the building and told me "sorry but I have no clue where it went" and to just check my mail daily incase its returned / file the claim. I also filed a lost mail case since they said that could help

If they lost your package, they should pay out the claim since it was insured!!! This is ludicrous!!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Uhhh, yeah, if it means getting my pay out when the item is lost. You're suggesting paying for insurance that doesn't really exist is more practical?

Lines can be long enough. Imagine if every person who sent an item insured had to show proof of value and the clerk had to go through an approval process while people stood there. Come on.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Terrible. This is a big reason that I have a private insurance policy on my collection, covers in transit through the mail, no need to ever purchase USPS insurance.

My collection is small, the total value is very modest and I only sell a few cards a year. However, I got an insurance policy, which covers mailing items (as long as I get the signature with it) and the cost for the policy is basically equal to adding insurance on a decent value card through the USPS once. Plus I get the coverage if I take cards to a show/shop, buy cards at a show/shop and while they are stored at home.

[Jobu]

I would also think that one of the many dealers/auction houses on Net54 would be able to write you an official letter giving appraised values for your cards, graded or not. That might be enough. I don't like using the purchase price unless you have to - what if you got a good deal or bought something before it appreciated?

[Exhibitman]

I am really sorry you are experiencing this. FWIW, the next time you send something expensive, go with Registered Mail rather than insurance. It covers $50K in value. The postal inspector will go absolutely ape-shit when a Registered Mail piece goes missing because it is supposed to be signed for in all transitions and checked in and stored under lock and key when not out for delivery. When a Registered Mail piece is lost whoever signed for it last is likely to get fired for losing it.

I mention this because I had a T206 Young portrait go missing in transit last year. The seller sent it via Registered Mail due to value. I went to get it at the post office listed on the notice (the one that stores Registered Mail for the area) and there was no card. I chased down the carrier who swore that he had turned it into the post office on the notice when I was not there to sign for it. I then went to the main branch post office here in Burbank, where the mail carrier was assigned, and filed a claim. The postmaster in Burbank called me immediately and jumped on the investigation quicker than I have ever seen the post office move on anything else that got lost. Turned out this moron probie mail carrier left me a notice to pick up my card at the Registered Mail post office but left it at the Burbank main post office instead. I got my card in the end because it was Registered Mail.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Lines can be long enough. Imagine if every person who sent an item insured had to show proof of value and the clerk had to go through an approval process while people stood there. Come on.

Imagine losing a $5,000 card you insured because that service wasn't offered....

Solution seems pretty simple to me: honor your insurance or go through the steps you force people to go through after the fact before you sell it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

UPS and FedEx will sell you whatever insurance you want to buy but will only actually pay out up to $1000 for any collectible. They'll take payment for $5,000 worth of insurance without mentioning that though. Always seemed like a class action suit waiting to happen.

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am really sorry you are experiencing this. FWIW, the next time you send something expensive, go with Registered Mail rather than insurance. It covers $50K in value. The postal inspector will go absolutely ape-shit when a Registered Mail piece goes missing because it is supposed to be signed for in all transitions and checked in and stored under lock and key when not out for delivery. When a Registered Mail piece is lost whoever signed for it last is likely to get fired for losing it.

I mention this because I had a T206 Young portrait go missing in transit last year. The seller sent it via Registered Mail due to value. I went to get it at the post office listed on the notice (the one that stores Registered Mail for the area) and there was no card. I chased down the carrier who swore that he had turned it into the post office on the notice when I was not there to sign for it. I then went to the main branch post office here in Burbank, where the mail carrier was assigned, and filed a claim. The postmaster in Burbank called me immediately and jumped on the investigation quicker than I have ever seen the post office move on anything else that got lost. Turned out this moron probie mail carrier left me a notice to pick up my card at the Registered Mail post office but left it at the Burbank main post office instead. I got my card in the end because it was Registered Mail.

I learned this after the fact but I mailed it base on my post office word of this being the "best" way

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

UPS and FedEx will sell you whatever insurance you want to buy but will only actually pay out up to $1000 for any collectible. They'll take payment for $5,000 worth of insurance without mentioning that though. Always seemed like a class action suit waiting to happen.

I definitely have a receipt saying insurance for 5k but they did tell me 5k was the limit

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am really sorry you are experiencing this. FWIW, the next time you send something expensive, go with Registered Mail rather than insurance. It covers $50K in value. The postal inspector will go absolutely ape-shit when a Registered Mail piece goes missing because it is supposed to be signed for in all transitions and checked in and stored under lock and key when not out for delivery. When a Registered Mail piece is lost whoever signed for it last is likely to get fired for losing it.

I mention this because I had a T206 Young portrait go missing in transit last year. The seller sent it via Registered Mail due to value. I went to get it at the post office listed on the notice (the one that stores Registered Mail for the area) and there was no card. I chased down the carrier who swore that he had turned it into the post office on the notice when I was not there to sign for it. I then went to the main branch post office here in Burbank, where the mail carrier was assigned, and filed a claim. The postmaster in Burbank called me immediately and jumped on the investigation quicker than I have ever seen the post office move on anything else that got lost. Turned out this moron probie mail carrier left me a notice to pick up my card at the Registered Mail post office but left it at the Burbank main post office instead. I got my card in the end because it was Registered Mail.

Registered mail is great if you have a month or 2 to wait for it to get delivered. Last time I used it, it took around 3 or 4 weeks to be delivered. All I can say is thank you Ted for understanding.

[Silverskulls]

That sucks! USPS is horrendous and constantly loses my mail, delivers it to neighboring houses, scans things it hasnt delivered, and doesnt scan things it did deliver.

I've had issues with USPS claims before, and have had to be aggressive but got it sorted out in most cases. Id definitely appeal the denial. If that doesn't work, Id recommend contacting your Member of Congress to let them know the issue you're having with USPS. I did that and got an almost immediate response from USPS after they had repeatedly denied me. Happy to help you ID the right person to talk to if you PM me.

-Justin

[GaryPassamonte]

The USPS has a simple system. There is no need to make it complicated. When mailing a package either registered or insured service, you should insure the package for its fair market value. Should a claim arise this fair market value can be proven by a recent purchase receipt or a record of a recent sale. If you are mailing an item for which this is difficult, expect delays in the payment of a claim. The responsibility is on the mailer to prove value, not the USPS. They are not experts on the value of the myriad of different types of items mailed. All this should be told to you at the time of mailing. If it isn't the individual clerk isn't doing their job. Also, it your item is damaged in handling and can't be repaired and you file a claim, be prepared to surrender the item to the Post Office. It's like totaling a car. The insurance company, in this case the USPS, retains possession of the property and, if possible will try to recoup some of their loss by selling it.

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

The USPS has a simple system. There is no need to make it complicated. When mailing a package either registered or insured service, you should insure the package for its fair market value. Should a claim arise this fair market value can be proven by a recent purchase receipt or a record of a recent sale. If you are mailing an item for which this is difficult, expect delays in the payment of a claim. The responsibility is on the mailer to prove value, not the USPS. They are not experts on the value of the myriad of different types of items mailed. All this should be told to you at the time of mailing. If it isn't the individual clerk isn't doing their job. Also, it your item is damaged in handling and can't be repaired and you file a claim, be prepared to surrender the item to the Post Office. It's like totaling a car. The insurance company, in this case the USPS, retains possession of the property and, if possible will try to recoup some of their loss by selling it.

Yeah that should be explained before hand but the 3 cards (green cobb,ruth and a crackerjack) are definitely
worth more than the 5k I insured the package for the 5k is my cost of the 3 items which I'm ok with if getting my cards back isnt a option

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why not submit records of your purchases? That's what they probably need.

That's not practical either.

Most of the cards I've sent in for grading were bought in the 1980's, and the more recent ones were either bargains, or given to me for having done some work.

So if they lost this one


I'd only get the $3 I probably spent on it and then only if I saved a receipt from 1983?

That's nonsense!

Graded cards have been around long enough that it's probably common for someone to have bought a card 10 years ago, and prices haven't stayed the same.

[BabyRuth]

I had a similar experience mailing to Boca. My package was listed as undeliverable even though SGC was a block from the Post Office. The Post Office said they were unable to find the package. I contacted SGC, and they found it at their facility after I gave them the tracking number. I think that too much sun in the Boca area is having a frying effect on people's brains.
Jim

[GaryPassamonte]

Steve- You would get the fair market value of the card based on recent sales, not the 40 year old purchase price. You would just have show this information to the Post Office and, of course, you would have to have insured it for that fair market value amount.

[C-mack]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Steve- You would get the fair market value of the card based on recent sales, not the 40 year old purchase price. You would just have show this information to the Post Office and, of course, you would have to have insured it for that fair market value amount.

VCP wasnt enough for them ...had to show the PayPal movement hoping that works

[Popcorn]

My 2 cents:

When using usps ONLY use REGISTERED MAIL on anything insured over 1k. Only the high end employees touch it and it’s always under lock and key.

I’ve never had a problem and have sent hundreds of packages this way (knock on wood)

The few times I’ve had to file a insurance claim with usps was using insured priority mail and they FOUGHT me every time.

Im 2 for 3 that way so keep at it and use Registered Mail only.

Good Luck!

Edit: the two times they approved my claim I had to go through appeals. They never approve the first time with a claim.

[Promethius88]

USPS insurance is horrible. I filed a claim and was denied because I couldn't verify the value. It was only $700 and it was for cards that I had for years and the value was actually much higher. The hoops they make you jump thru are asinine. Worst part....they know the package was lost but not only did they deny my insurance claim, they refused to refund the actual cost of the shipping for a package that didn't arrive. I was getting e-mails for months that they were still looking for the package. Now, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow was that there was a packing slip inside the box so apparently it was opened and the package FINALLY got to it's intended location after a couple months. To this day, the tracking number still shows that it is "In Transit".

[insidethewrapper]

Registered Mail costs more, but it helps you sleep better.

[Directly]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Terrible. This is a big reason that I have a private insurance policy on my collection, covers in transit through the mail, no need to ever purchase USPS insurance.

I also purchased a private insurance policy to cover some items I took to the National--since homeowners will only cover x amount!

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by steve B

That's not practical either.

Most of the cards I've sent in for grading were bought in the 1980's, and the more recent ones were either bargains, or given to me for having done some work.

So if they lost this one


I'd only get the $3 I probably spent on it and then only if I saved a receipt from 1983?

That's nonsense!

Graded cards have been around long enough that it's probably common for someone to have bought a card 10 years ago, and prices haven't stayed the same.

exactly what I was thinking

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

USPS insurance is horrible. I filed a claim and was denied because I couldn't verify the value. It was only $700 and it was for cards that I had for years and the value was actually much higher. The hoops they make you jump thru are asinine. Worst part....they know the package was lost but not only did they deny my insurance claim, they refused to refund the actual cost of the shipping for a package that didn't arrive. I was getting e-mails for months that they were still looking for the package. Now, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow was that there was a packing slip inside the box so apparently it was opened and the package FINALLY got to it's intended location after a couple months. To this day, the tracking number still shows that it is "In Transit".

I’m in complete agreement. Now if I was a postal employee looking for a box to make vanish (so to speak), would I choose a small flat rate priority box or would I choose a small flat rate box with an insurance sticker on it. Since I share your opinion of USPS insurance, I tend to send some higher end cards without insurance of any kind and no insured sticker therefore and have never had a problem. If the value on the contents represented a loss that I couldn’t absorb, then I would go the registered mail route. Am I crazy to think that an insured package is not an invitation to “Take Me”?

[HercDriver]

The best you can do is save a receipt for anything. Whatever it is, doesn't matter. You have an auction house receipt, and a scan of the card...who cares if it's from 2012. When you mail your cards, insure them, and if they are lost, use the old scan and auction receipt as proof of value. It's lost. They have no idea if the T206 3-Finger Brown was in the envelope, or the 1956 Mantle card that you have an REA receipt for. Right?

Cheers,
Geno

[jfkheat]

I have always had an issue with paying the USPS, UPS or Fed-Ex extra to insure that they do their job properly. I can't think of any other business that requires me to do that.

[PowderedH2O]

I don't think the package contents should matter for anything. If I decide to insure a photo of my grandmother for $5k because I want to make sure it doesn't get lost, and USPS loses it, then they should be out the $5k. I am a school teacher and I don't make a lot of money. But, if I want to pay for the insurance costs, I can insure myself for millions.

[DCDSports]

For what it is worth, I think private insurance is the way to go.

In the 20 years or so we used private insurance to cover our stuff (during transit), we only had to make a claim twice.

Both were easy. One was a card being shipped. During shipping, the card tore (it was fragile . . . ). Showed company a recent price, and a check for 10k was sent.

Second was one a few years ago. Shipped 5 boxes of stuff to Canada. 1 of 5 boxes went missing. It just disappeared into the Fed-ex system.

Sent insurance company our documentation, a note from Fed-ex, and a check was quickly cut (pretty high number, but we had packing lists and values placed).

4 months later, a call from someone at Fed-ex who found the box somewhere. It was opened, a name was found, and they called us. Box was shipped back and all was there.

We called the insurance company, said the box had been found and fully accounted for. We cut them a check, which made them pretty happy (guess it's rare), and we sold the cards to the same guy for the same price. Shipped 'em out, and they arrived safely.

We generally use Fed-ex, but have used all shipping options.

If it's possible, see if it your insurance covers transit. It'll be easier to work with than USPS at any given time.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

The price you paid for the coverage was based on the declared value, so the cost you paid to buy the item(s) I would think would be irrelevant.

Bingo. In a just system, you buy x amount of insurance, and they lose it, then they pay x amount of insurance. The actual value of the item is irrelevant.

The whole "prove it" rigamarole is a dishonest tactic designed to avoid paying a good faith claim.

[Oscar_Stanage]

I am going to send in a stack of raw cards to SGC for grading. The total value will likely be between $2-$3k.

Should I send via USPS registered mail?
Do I need to take pictures of the cards I send as 'evidence' in case I need to file a claim? For cards purchased here and on FB groups via Paypal F&F, I don't think those transactions have receipts.

This will be my first submission, want to make sure I do this the right way.

Thank you