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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)]. Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363 meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca). In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints. So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here. And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________ INDEX Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters. Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted. Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005 Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds" Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ? Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one ! Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ? Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ? Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ? Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ? Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 01-06-2021 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX. |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
. . . . Quote:
Hi Rob It's futile to try and understood why PSA grades AB 460 cards as "trimmed". And DITTO for SGC....when I acquired this Jennings card (circa 2012) it had been graded an "A". And, that was just fine with me, as it was A-ffordable. . I cracked it open and submitted it back to SGC, and this time it came back a "60". So, both of these two TPG's really don't know how to grade these AB 460 cards. Incidentally, I just returned home from the National. The Chicago Show is always absolutely the best. I had a good Show, sold a lot of cards, including several T206 Red HINDU cards. However, the highlight of the Show for me was all you Net54 guys who stopped by to have some really interesting T206 discussions. Thanks, Guys TED Z . |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
At the National, five Net54 "readers" (these guys don't post) visited with me at my booth and we had some interesting conversations regarding their T206 collections. Four of these guys strictly collect UNGRADED T206's. One collects only GRADED. And a regular Net54er, Chris R, whose 520-card set is a combination of GRADED and UNGRADED. So, here is the latest tally...… We now have 9 guys whose T206 cards are strictly UNGRADED. Three who collect only GRADED T206's. Four whose collections are a mixture of both GRADED and UNGRADED T206's. And, one that is too early to tell (Hi Leon). Although this is a small informal survey; nevertheless, it somewhat reflects a trend. Perhaps, more T206 collectors will chime in here with their Show-n-Tell stories. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 08-07-2019 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Added information. |
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Hi Ted,
Not sure if I was included in the tally on how T206’s are collected, but my 520 set is a combination of graded and raw. The graded cards were bought that way and left in the slabs. Thank you for taking the time to talk at The National. The things I look forward to the most at The National are catching up with fellow collectors and meeting new ones. Take care, Chris |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
Quote:
Hi Chris You were included. I have modified my Post #803 to mention your specific input. It's always great "Talkin' T206's" with you. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 08-07-2019 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
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Quote:
Cycle Composite.jpg
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Looking for a T206 Jimmy Lavender Cycle back plus several American Beauty and Tolstoi backs for Providence players. Successful sales transactions with jamorton215, gorditadogg, myerburg311, TAFKADixie, jimq16415, Thromdog, CardPadre |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
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Congratulations on nearing completion with your Providence guys with CYCLE 350 backs. Are you close to completing the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 run with the Providence cards ? TED Z . |
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Thanks, Ted. No, the ABs have proven more difficult. I think I've got Hoffman, Lavender, and Phelan. The only other I've seen was Moran but I was too slow to nab it.
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Looking for a T206 Jimmy Lavender Cycle back plus several American Beauty and Tolstoi backs for Providence players. Successful sales transactions with jamorton215, gorditadogg, myerburg311, TAFKADixie, jimq16415, Thromdog, CardPadre |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
Quote:
Hi Rich I have a number of AMERICAN BEAUTY 350's. When I get home tonite, I'll sort thru them looking for any of the other five Providence players ? TED Z . |
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It's so interesting all the different ways everyone collects this set, including if they are graded or not. Seeing that this thread is already 800+ posts, I thought it would be fun to go back and read the first page. I found one of my posts from a little over 2 years ago. It's interesting to see how my numbers have changed since then. I even believed that a certain "No Print" card existed even though no one had ever seen one and I actually ended up finding it. Thanks Ted for starting this thread and thanks to everyone that contributes to it.
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
Quote:
Hi Ron Interesting story, thanks for posting it. And, pardon me if I take some liberty in augmenting this comment of your's......"I found it. Hooks Wiltse Pitching PSA 2 with a blurry scan of the Piedmont 350-460 back. Even with the blurry scan, I could tell the factory line was longer (factory 42) than all the other Piedmont backs. So I hit the Buy It Now for $44.95 and have been hooked".….. Speaking about the Wiltse (pitching) card, how many of you T206 "dudes" are aware that this card has a unique feature ? The Wiltse (pitching) card's caption is unique in that it's missing a DOT after the Y in "N. Y." I have checked out my Wiltse cards [AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, PIEDMONT 350-460, SOVEREIGN 350, SWEET CAPORAL 350 (Factory #30) and UZIT]….the DOT is omitted on all of them. Therefore, I don't think we can call this a "variation". I have not seen this type of DOT omission on any other T206 captons with "N. Y." . TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 08-11-2019 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
Quote:
This Wiltse card was printed with 19 (or 20 ) different T206 backs. I have checked-out 17 cards of Wiltse with as many as 17 different T-brands. And all 17 of these Wiltse's are missing the DOT following the "Y" on the front. And this is the way it should be, as we have hypothesized that the Fronts were first pre-printed on sheets which were hung up to dry. Then, as the various Tobacco Factories ordered cards, American Lithographic printed the respective brands on the Backs of the T206's. And shipped to their respective Factories. TED Z . |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
Quote:
Hi Ron I think the "NoPrint" you are referring to is the Lajoie with SWEET CAP 350-460, Fac. #30. A great find on your part. And thanks for the kind words....plus all the very meaningful stuff you have posted in this thread these past 2 years. . . TED Z . |
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Quote:
Hi Ted, yes the Lajoie. Has another one been found that I'm not aware of? I actually stopped looking after I found mine.
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
Quote:
Sorry for the delayed response to your question. It's my understanding that David Hall's master set includes all 28 - SWEET CAP 350-460, Factory #30 "no-print" cards. So, yes another Lajoie exists. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 08-25-2019 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
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Just curious as to how many T206 collectors actually spend a lot of their time looking for new print group patterns? I'm always trying to find patterns and cards that don't fit the patterns. Just like today, I started with a blank sheet and wanted to find anything odd about Sweet Caporal Factory 25's. Many probably start at the beginning but I always start in the middle. I start with 350's and then look at what's missing from the 150's and the 460's. I tend to find more patterns by doing it this way. Interestingly, I found that 12 cards were missing from print group 4. After I listed them together, the list looked very familiar. It was the same cards as the 12 that are difficult in Old Mill's and Easier in Hindu's. Although many of us already know about these 12 cards, it's still interesting to start with a blank page and discover how we all got to where we are currently. There are 457 different front Sweet Caporal Factory 25's out of 524 cards.
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
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Crandall, Doc (Portrait With Cap)
DeVore, Josh Duffy, Hugh Ford, Russ Gandil, Chick Geyer, Rube Hummel, John McGraw, John (Glove At Hip) Pfeffer, Francis Sheckard, Jimmy (Glove Showing) Tannehill, Lee (Tannehill On Front) Wheat, Zack
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
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Oh, you mean the ones that are easier to find with the Red Hindu backs. Okay, I get it now.
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T206 REFERENCE...How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards
Sean
I'm surprised....for you know Merkle is not one of Exclusive 12 guys in the 460-only Series. Your amazing Merkle run does NOT have a red HINDU card. Nor will it ever.....since the only subjects in the 460-only Series printed with red HINDU backs are the Exclusive 12 subjects. TED Z . |
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Wether your just getting started with collecting T206's or you've been collecting for many years, we can all agree that there are many ways to collect the Monster. Many collectors don't like T206's because they are not rare. Sorry but it's true. There are always many to choose from when making a purchase. There are probably between 100 and 200 complete 520 sets in collections. These are sets with any advertisement backs but usually Piedmont and Sweet Caporal which are most common.
So here's where it gets interesting. A 520 card set can go from common to difficult just by eliminating Piedmont and Sweet Caporal backs and chasing the more difficult backs. There may be a few of these specialty sets already completed and a small group of other collectors currently working on them. Now, say you want to go from difficult to extremely rare. Lets say you eliminate Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Old Mill, and Sovereign. Well 520 cards is not possible. There are 36 cards that would be missing from your set according to T206resourse. There are also 88 cards where Hindu Brown is your only choice. Here is the list of the missing 36 cards. Maybe some of these cards can be found and removed from this list. Southern League Jack Bastian Bill Hart Jimmy Hart Frank King Harry Lentz Molly Miller Al Orth Charles Seitz Carlos Smith Dolly Stark Tony Thebo Foley White Polar Bear Only Ray Demmitt St. Louis Bill O'Hara St. Louis EPDG Possible but not confirmed George Brown Washington Ty Cobb Bat On Shoulder Ty Cobb Portrait - Green Wid Conroy Fielding Sam Crawford Throwing Dode Criss Bill Dahlen Brooklyn Jiggs Donohue Kid Elberfeld Portrait - Washington Ed Hahn Fred Jacklitsch Red Kleinow NY With Bat John McGraw Finger In Air Danny Murphy Throwing Simon Nicholls Hands On Knees Harry Niles Rube Oldring Fielding Frank Smith Chicago - F. Smith Jake Stahl No Glove Shows Rube Waddell Throwing Jimmy Williams Tolstoi Possible but not confirmed Bill O'Hara New York So bottom line, the question is, how common are T206's? The answer: It all depends on how you collect them. For those who want to know my current numbers, here they are. No Piedmont or Sweet Caporal 494/520 No Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Old Mill, or Sovereign 264/484
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
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Great post by Ron. There are so many different ways to parse the set. I'll post my progress...
No Piedmont or Sweet Caporal 431/520 No Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear, Old Mill, or Sovereign 184/484 I think it's also worth noting removing PB/OM/Sov from the set eliminates some of the best cards in the set! Green Cobb and Bat on, Waddell throwing, and Elberfeld. Plus, there are a whole host of cards where a Sovereign 150 is actually more difficult than a Hindu. On those, I actually prefer a Sov150 over the Hindu. Also, I've built this from the top to the bottom. So my first goal was tackling the expensive and difficult HOF/variations, and now I'm on the hunt for the various commons I need. Last edited by t206kid; 09-08-2019 at 06:24 AM. |
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REFERENCE / Reflections....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards..
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
In conversations throughout the years with collectors who own (or have owned) the T206 Honus Wagner card, it's interesting to find out that a fair number of these cards have originated from the NY - Long Island area. The majority of the Wagner cards are SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #25. Also, some of them are SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #30. And, a handful are PIEDMONT 150. Conventional thinking is that none of the PIEDMONT Wagner's were inserted in Cigarette packs. Indeed, the PSA Wagner was cut from an uncut sheet (or panel). I bring up this subject because I have a theory..... OH NO ! …..Another theory by Ted Z Consider this....Joseph Palmer Knapp, the founder of the American Lithographic Company (ALC), had a vacation home in Suffolk County, Long Island (NY). Therefore, I'm suggesting...when Wagner forced ATC to discontinue printing his image, ALC was in the process of printing up many 150 Series cards (which included Wagner and Plank). So what happened to all the Wagner cards (approx. 75 - 90 exist) ? Were they dis-card-ed (excuse the pun) by ALC ? Or perhaps, Mr. Knapp took a bunch of them out to Long Island and handed them out to his children, and their friends or neighbors. If so, these Wagner's eventually found they way into NY residents' collections. Let's hear of your experiences, or thoughts, regarding the T206 Wagner card ? TED Z . |
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Ted, I took a quick look at the psa pop report...
Cy Young port...sc 150/25.....6 Bobby Wallace...sc 150/25.....5 Honus Wagner...sc 150/25.....4 Young sc 150/30 .... 42 Wallace sc 150/30.... 27 Wagner sc 150/30.... 2 It's not a scientific sample, but it's interesting that the 2 random hofers I picked compare almost equally for factory 25, but not factory 30.
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
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Ted, that's an interesting thought. If it's true, then finding a Wagner in a pack would have been even more difficult than thought. I'm still saving up for a Wagner of my own. Time to go door to door in Long Island.
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
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Ted, just curious, what premium (if any), do you place on a Piedmont-backed Wagner or Plank vs the more common Sweet Caporal backs? When I say “premium”, I mean in a general sense- value, prestige, etc. How many Piedmont Wagners and Planks are there?
Or better General question - do you think the back “matters” when it comes to Wagner and Plank, and if so, how much so with the much rarer Piedmont (which probably all should be A) vs Sweet Cap? Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 09-10-2019 at 03:59 PM. |
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards
Hi Ryan
Generally speaking....I don't think most T206 collectors care which back is on a Wagner or Plank, they are just happy to get one (or both) of these cards. Now, "dudes" like me would prefer to have the PIEDMONT version of these two T206 cards (so, I can complete my all - PIEDMONT set). Besides, the big $$$$$$ associated with these two T206's is way above my "pay-grade". I'm content with my SWEET CAP 150, Factory #30 Eddie Plank (graded "A"). "A" for Awesome, and Affordable TED Z . |
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I do remember a few years back, that a Plank Piedmont was graded with a numerical grade. I questioned then if it should have been graded that way. As far as what I'd prefer when building a set, I'd like a Factory 25 over a Factory 30.
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
#830
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards..
Quote:
Ron About 8 (or so) years ago there was a PIEDMONT 150 Plank graded by SGC. I think they graded it SGC 70. Like you, I question the validity of that grade on that Plank. TED Z . |
#831
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The Piedmont Plank SGC 70 went for $330K in 2012.
http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_119.html
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Looking for a T206 Jimmy Lavender Cycle back plus several American Beauty and Tolstoi backs for Providence players. Successful sales transactions with jamorton215, gorditadogg, myerburg311, TAFKADixie, jimq16415, Thromdog, CardPadre |
#832
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Quote:
Dan Mckee 03/20/2012 Post http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=149071 Ted Zanidakis 03/27/2012 Follow-up Post http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=149346
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
#833
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
There is no predicting which T206 subjects will be found with no Tobacco advertisement printed on their back. Blank-Back (B-B) T206's are simply a random phenomena. Needless to say, B-B T206 cards are highly sought after, and big $$$$ are usually paid to acquire these cards. So, let us see how many Blank-Back (B-B) T206's we can display here. And, perhaps some one will post a B-B HOFer. I have yet to see such a T206. Well, I will start this show with my B-B...... . Thanks to Dan McKee for giving me a nice deal on this card. TED Z . |
#834
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Here are my 3 blank-backs:
Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 09-16-2019 at 05:50 PM. |
#835
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections....T206 BLANK-BACKS....if you have them, post them here
Three blank-back HOFer's….great stuff, Ryan. Thanks for posting them.
TED Z . |
#836
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Here are mine, I sold Ellam a few years ago, and have since had the others graded.
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#837
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Spoke with PSA recently & asked them about slabbing blank backs, and heard back "We have never processed proofs and the biggest reason is the there are two known varieties that can occur for T206. There are blank back & proofs that are known to hobbyist. There is no definitive way to discern between both of those situations accurately, thus we have never processed both types of items."
Thought that was strange. Here's my two: |
#838
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Quote:
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Ron - Uncle Nacki T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524 T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258 COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28 NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS Polar Bear 245/250 Sovereign 460 50/52 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34 Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11 |
#839
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agree with you, but they were (for now) firm on their stance.
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#840
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Bizarre response from PSA. Proofs are blank backed and always have crop marks (for the precious alignment of the artwork, hence Proofs typically have very crisp and bold images, as every color pass is aligned perfectly). Some have the player name/team (type 2), and some do not (type 1, often having a slight artwork change from the original).
Last edited by MVSNYC; 09-17-2019 at 01:59 PM. |
#841
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Quote:
Six months ago, you asked if there is another Mullaney with a "$trange" back. Well, yes there is....however, this one is blank . . TED Z . |
#842
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Here's my Schulte Blank-Back card....although SGC refused to label it as such. When it's out of the plastic, it's obvious that this card is NOT "skinned" (but has a spot of paper loss in the upper left corner). . TED Z . |
#843
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here's my last remaining Blank. It's actually not blank, but it doesn't have an ad on the back. And I still can't straighten them out.
IMG_1533.jpg IMG_1534.jpg |
#844
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
Neat stuff, thanks for sharing your Blank-Back T206's with us.....Ryan, Steve, Jeff, Mike & Sean.
Perhaps, we will see some more of these B-B T206 cards. They appear randomly. There is no way of predicting which ones will come out of the woodwork. TED Z . |
#845
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My blank back
T206 Jake Beckley - this is part of my t206 HOF back run
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#846
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
And, here is one more Blank-Back to add to the mix. I don't own this card any more, since I traded it to Chris and Kristin Buckler (Louisville collectors). Well, this T206 proof raises the tally to 19 blank-back cards posted here. Perhaps, we'll get a 20th B-B posted. TED Z . |
#847
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BB Snoddy
Here is my BB snoddy, cool card! sorry for the bad pic, lost my key to my display cabinet (high security) :-)
Nice BB's fellas! Cliff snoddy.jpg
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T201 Master Set - COMPLETE !!! F30 (50/50) F649 (50/50) "Mecca - Perfect Satisfaction" T206 Back Set - 37/38 T227 Series of Champions Master Set 45/48 1948 Bowman - Baseball & Football (upgrading) |
#848
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Dougherty Blank Back
Here's the only one that I own. Still waiting for the guys at T206Resource.com to add it to their confirmed list...
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Current projects: White Sox prewar type set White Sox T206 Master set 1952 Topps set |
#849
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T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...
Neat stuff, thanks for sharing your Blank-Back T206's with us....David, Cliff, and Tom.
The tally is up to 21 blank-back cards posted here. Perhaps, we'll get a some more B-B posted. TED Z . |
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