USA TODAY article regarding FBI subpoenas, doctoring, etc......

[nolemmings]

Barry, whether the meeting was intended to be confidential or not, I am deeply disappointed that you did not inform this forum that Al does not like the Beatles. That's the kind of info that people ought to know. I just consigned a couple of items to him, and now I have to re-think things. Geez, you think you know somebody.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Barry, whether the meeting was intended to be confidential or not, I am deeply disappointed that you did not inform this forum that Al does not like the Beatles. That's the kind of info that people ought to know. I just consigned a couple of items to him, and now I have to re-think things. Geez, you think you know somebody.

If Al was half my size, instead of twice my size, we would have had a different outcome.

[barrysloate]

I've been in the business thirty-five years, and while I know there are many passionate collectors who love collecting and love baseball history, what I've taken away is that this hobby is first and foremost about money. And if telling the truth about some of the problems with baseball cards will cost them money, in some cases quite a bit, they are going to fight it to the death.

The revelations of the past few months, which have been known by some of us for over a decade but are now widely known by many, could potentially cost some an incredible amount of money. And those with a major investment will not take this lightly.

Nevertheless, the truth marches on. It's there for you to accept or reject.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I've been in the business thirty-five years, and while I know there are many passionate collectors who love collecting and love baseball history, what I've taken away is that this hobby is first and foremost about money. And if telling the truth about some of the problems with baseball cards will cost them money, in some cases quite a bit, they are going to fight it to the death.

The revelations of the past few months, which have been known by some of us for over a decade but are now widely known by many, could potentially cost some an incredible amount of money. And those with a major investment will not take this lightly.

Nevertheless, the truth marches on. It's there for you to accept or reject.

Sadly I think you're right. Unless I am drastically underestimating what law enforcement will be able to accomplish here, and I think however well-intended and vigorous it will be limited, the unholy alliance of TPGs and (most) AHs and dealers and card doctors will just stamp it out and keep on keeping on. Too much easy money, too many really scummy people, not enough collectors who genuinely care. The ultimate cluster f***.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sadly I think you're right. Unless I am drastically underestimating what law enforcement will be able to accomplish here, and I think however well-intended and vigorous it will be limited, the unholy alliance of TPGs and (most) AHs and dealers and card doctors will just stamp it out and keep on keeping on. Too much easy money, too many really scummy people, not enough collectors who genuinely care. The ultimate cluster f***.

I'm holding on to a wee bit of optimism here...

I cannot recall any "scandal" quite this big within the hobby. I don't think Mastro or Operation Bullpen even came close. And there are still so many tainted cards that have not yet been revealed. Remember that Mastro/Allen and the Marinos were both put out of business after similar investigations.

I concede that nothing has changed as a result of past events, but this feels bigger. I have a slight inkling that the FBI will uncover some of the key pieces to this puzzle, and hopefully come down hard on the key parties involved.

If not, then I agree we are just in for more of the same. "Conservation" will prevail, and no changes are likely to happen (in our lifetimes anyway). This is THE opportunity for change, and just pray they don't blow it.

[brianp-beme]

I think the below link contains information about a pizza meeting in winter:

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=84000

Brian

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I think the below link is what you all are talking about:

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=84000

Brian

That's it Brian, thank you. So the meeting was in January, 2007. and I forgot about Dan Gantt, who sadly passed away a number of years ago.

Our hope of getting together a collector's organization never got off the ground.

[martyp]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

That's it Brian, thank you. So the meeting was in January, 2007. and I forgot about Dan Gantt, who sadly passed away a number of years ago.

Our hope of getting together a collector's organization never got off the ground.

I recall an attempt at an organization for honest dealers. It was after hours at the first Baltimore National. It seemed like a hush hush meeting that I was invited to. I arrived a little late and there were maybe 15 dealers. I do not recall any of the topics.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I've been in the business thirty-five years, and while I know there are many passionate collectors who love collecting and love baseball history, what I've taken away is that this hobby is first and foremost about money. And if telling the truth about some of the problems with baseball cards will cost them money, in some cases quite a bit, they are going to fight it to the death.

The revelations of the past few months, which have been known by some of us for over a decade but are now widely known by many, could potentially cost some an incredible amount of money. And those with a major investment will not take this lightly.

Nevertheless, the truth marches on. It's there for you to accept or reject.

The first paragraph states my impression as well. And, as a fact-based and truth searching person, I have zero respect for those kinds of people. However, those kinds of people are only a portion of the hobby. Anyone who reads this and other boards knows there are many collectors concerned with facts, the truth and, shockingly, accurate grading and authentication.

Happily, I think that facts, knowledge and truth generally win out, later is sooner. When facts become common hobby knowledge, the knowledge wins out. Why? Because everyone knows.

I recommend reading, or reading about, Thomas Kuhn's Structures of Scientific Revolutions.