USA TODAY article regarding FBI subpoenas, doctoring, etc......

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Maybe you can search it? I'm disappointed that I can't remember the details beyond the pizza.

Maybe I can jog your memory,

Pepperoni or Sausage?

Thick or Thin crust?

White or Red sauce?

[1952boyntoncollector]

I remember how happy i was when USA today came out and you get could more info on other teams besides your home team. I think Frank Deford also had a newspaper or something that tried that.

Now i surprised to learn that USA today is still in business...maybe its thriving who knows but i didnt even know they still in business until saw this thread

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Maybe I can jog your memory,

Pepperoni or Sausage?

Thick or Thin crust?

White or Red sauce?

Regular Neopolitan, no toppings that I can recall (although I can't rule out pepperoni.)

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Regular Neopolitan, no toppings that I can recall (although I can't rule out pepperoni.)

could you fold the piizza...if not how can you say they were delicious.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I could make a joke asking whether certain people there trimmed their slices, but never mind.

[barrysloate]

It was a constructive meeting, and I do remember Doug Allen was kind of on top of the world, bragging about Mastro Auctions. And Dave Forman drove me home that night, which I greatly appreciated.

[Johnny630]

Was the point of the meeting? to show just how difficult it was to catch altered cards ?

[ALR-bishop]

I think USA Today survives now through sales to hotels world wide and cruise ships.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Was the point of the meeting? to show just how difficult it was to catch altered cards ?

Yeah it struck me as a subtle way of telling people, hey you can probably get altered cards past TPG's

[Al C.risafulli]

I was there, and I did have pizza. Barry's timeline is correct, it was a Net54 thread that I think happened on Thanksgiving Day of 2007 that precipitated the whole thing, and I seem to remember it being really cold outside, so it was likely that winter.

I had a lovely conversation with Barry, who it was a pleasure to meet in person for the very first time (leading off with "I don't like the Beatles" is probably not the best way to make a first impression). I also recall having a chat with Keith, who is a fascinating guy and a pleasure to talk to each of the handful of times I've been fortunate enough to be in his company. Michael Sarno was also there, it was the first time I'd met him and he's turned into a good pal over the years.

If I recall, not only was the meeting not secret, it was pretty widely discussed on the boards. I don't remember how I wound up at the meeting, but I remember being flattered to have been included. Jim was trying to figure out a way to get the bad cards out of the hobby, and while his intentions were good, I remember leaving the meeting thinking that it wasn't going to be possible to fix this from within, because every collector's idea of which people are ethical, and every collector's idea of what was ok to do to a card, was filled with shades of gray.

Aside from getting to be in the esteemed company of Barry and Keith, and meeting a guy (Michael) who turned out to be a longtime friend, as you can see from where we are today, we unfortunately accomplished zero.

-Al

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

I was there, and I did have pizza. Barry's timeline is correct, it was a Net54 thread that I think happened on Thanksgiving Day of 2007 that precipitated the whole thing, and I seem to remember it being really cold outside, so it was likely that winter.

I had a lovely conversation with Barry, who it was a pleasure to meet in person for the very first time (leading off with "I don't like the Beatles" is probably not the best way to make a first impression). I also recall having a chat with Keith, who is a fascinating guy and a pleasure to talk to each of the handful of times I've been fortunate enough to be in his company. Michael Sarno was also there, it was the first time I'd met him and he's turned into a good pal over the years.

If I recall, not only was the meeting not secret, it was pretty widely discussed on the boards. I don't remember how I wound up at the meeting, but I remember being flattered to have been included. Jim was trying to figure out a way to get the bad cards out of the hobby, and while his intentions were good, I remember leaving the meeting thinking that it wasn't going to be possible to fix this from within, because every collector's idea of which people are ethical, and every collector's idea of what was ok to do to a card, was filled with shades of gray.

Aside from getting to be in the esteemed company of Barry and Keith, and meeting a guy (Michael) who turned out to be a longtime friend, as you can see from where we are today, we unfortunately accomplished zero.

-Al

I was thinking Sarno might have been there too, and that would have been my first time meeting him. And yes, grading and authenticating was the gist of it.

Al- I also remembered you said you liked the Ramones over the Clash, and I kind of was leaning toward the Clash as being more important. See how I remember the silly stuff?

[Keith H. Thompson]

There were several different kinds of pizza. At the end of the meeting there were at least two left over untouched and mint in the box. Jim said they would be thrown out otherwise, so I took two home. One I gave to a homeless man at the corner of 38th and Park on my way to my son's apartment. I realize now that the only thing he was interested in was hard currency, but it made me feel good. The other I enjoyed with my son, compliments of Jim. I grew up in the depth of the Great Depression, and I still can't bear to see food go to waste. Those who were with me at Barry's New York Net54 meeting at Spark's Steak House a few years ago can attest. With regard to which, I have never thanked Wondo properly for picking up the check. The largest I have ever seen in my life.

Barry did pin Dave Foreman down on the matter of the matter of repeated submissions. My conversations with Doug Allen were private on other matters, like Bob Shawkey's 1927 WS Ring, but Mastro was indeed on top of the Hobby, and Doug could orate from strength. He had to do some bobbing and weaving but managed to leave the impression that a "small percentage" of cards might be altered.

I am a Mathematical Statistician by profession, and I would introduce at this time to the Net54 conversation the perception and psychological value of the "5% level" to the layman's eye that an observed event that can occur by chance "less than 5% under some appropriate Null Hypothesis" is real, and that "greater than 5%" might be, well, simply due to chance.

An example would be when the Players Association replied to Canseco's charges of drug use that "maybe less than 5% might be users." It is still being used today as some kind of magic number that "we cannot control" and therefore okay.

I stand with those who say that a single example of altering offends.