FBI was at National

[Peter_Spaeth]

I do hope part of the investigation will include the millions of dollars of "sales" reported by PWCC but not found the ebay market research tool, which removes unpaid transactions. I think a decision has been made not to specifically identify the names of the winning bidders associated with those transactions (though it wasn't hard to figure out some), but obviously if that information matters to the investigators it will be in the records.

[GeoPoto]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I do hope part of the investigation will include the millions of dollars of "sales" reported by PWCC but not found the ebay market research tool, which removes unpaid transactions.

If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

George, if the seller gets paid by check, he clicks the "paid" button which advises ebay that the lot is paid for.
If not the buyer will get repeated emails from ebay to pay for the lot.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

George, if the seller gets paid by check, he clicks the "paid" button which advises ebay that the lot is paid for.
If not the buyer will get repeated emails from ebay to pay for the lot.

And I would assume that unless these sales were actually cancelled by Brent, the "buyers" would have received strikes and since many of them did this many times eventually been banned?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

Thank goodness for the so called amateurs. Without them doing the good work
on blow out it would be the same old same old. I'm sure some of these transactions
can be explained, but 7 million? At least now with all the work done by the
amateurs, the pros can head in the right direction. Something seems off
to me especially after seeing the list of unpaid high dollar cards with the
same id. Could it be wire payments? Possibly. But now the pros can do some
easy digging. Add it to the pile of poop to go through.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aconte

Thank goodness for the so called amateurs. Without them doing the good work
on blow out it would be the same on same old. I'm sure some of these transactions
can be explained, but 7 million? At least now with all the work done by the
amateurs, the pros can head in the right direction. Something seems off
to me especially after seeing the list of unpaid high dollar cards with the
same id. Could it be wire payments? Possibly. But now the pros can do some
easy digging. Add it to the pile of poop to go through.

I don't like coincidences. To me it's awfully coincidental that so many of the transactions identified as being unpaid by the tool on PWCC's own website are the very same ones I and others were expressing disbelief at in 2016. And it's awfully coincidental that some of the individuals who were the high bidders on these cards are the same ones who, by Brent's admission (if only privately), were the ones "pushing" the market to use his term.

I also don't understand why, even with a different form of payment, Brent would not have marked the transactions as paid, if in fact they were. It cannot be the case that ebay reports every transaction as unpaid (and presumably collects no fees) every time a buyer pays other than by PAYPAL.

All that said, of course ultimately it's up to the FBI to figure this out definitively, if it's part of what they are investigating.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't like coincidences. To me it's awfully coincidental that so many of the transactions identified as being unpaid by the tool on PWCC's own website are the very same ones I and others were expressing disbelief at in 2016. And it's awfully coincidental that some of the individuals who were the high bidders on these cards are the same ones who, by Brent's admission (if only privately), were the ones "pushing" the market to use his term.

I also don't understand why, even with a different form of payment, Brent would not have marked the transactions as paid, if in fact they were. It cannot be the case that ebay reports every transaction as unpaid (and presumably collects no fees) every time a buyer pays other than by PAYPAL.

All that said, of course ultimately it's up to the FBI to figure this out definitively, if it's part of what they are investigating.

Also people are consigning to PWCC due to their sales history.....

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by aconte

Thank goodness for the so called amateurs. Without them doing the good work
on blow out it would be the same old same old. I'm sure some of these transactions
can be explained, but 7 million? At least now with all the work done by the
amateurs, the pros can head in the right direction. Something seems off
to me especially after seeing the list of unpaid high dollar cards with the
same id. Could it be wire payments? Possibly. But now the pros can do some
easy digging. Add it to the pile of poop to go through.

Tony: the amateurs on BODA are providing clear-cut evidence. Incredible work. Scott, the amateur, is leaning into conjecture and arriving at unsupported insinuations. Big difference.

And for the record, I'm not trying to explain away the whole lot of unpaid transactions. I'm just providing an alternative explanation for one of those buyers with a small percentage of those transactions.

Like Peter, I hope the FBI turns over every stone and publishes (a la Mastro-list) the complete rundown of illegal activity in this hobby. But until that happens, I'll personally refrain from positing unsubstantiated claims and I would hope other smart people would take a similar approach.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Tony: the amateurs on BODA are providing clear-cut evidence. Incredible work. Scott, the amateur, is leaning into conjecture and arriving at unsupported insinuations. Big difference.

And for the record, I'm not trying to explain away the whole lot of unpaid transactions. I'm just providing an alternative explanation for one of those buyers with a small percentage of those transactions.

Like Peter, I hope the FBI turns over every stone and publishes (a la Mastro-list) the complete rundown of illegal activity in this hobby. But until that happens, I'll personally refrain from positing unsubstantiated claims and I would hope other smart people would take a similar approach.

That's redicciciciculous, I want opinions here, not facts. Opinions from like mind individuals have a way of trickling down to facts. Coincidences are evidence, right?

[Tim Zwick]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto View Post
If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

Let's also all hope then that these "real investigators" you speak of can explain the data to us amateurs of how by not claiming millions of dollars of completed sales in itself would not be considered a fraudulent offense by depriving eBay of the final value fees they are due on each and every one of those sales. Fraud is still fraud, no matter who you commit it against.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

Paying like that is all good but even IF PWCC got paid for in that way eBay did not get paid. At least they are/were screwing everyone.