Dealers need to learn more about foreign cards

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

Isn't this behavior the reason card shows are dying? There's no money trading hands, which puts the rental of the table underwater due to absurd pricing on the table. So if the show is no longer profitable for a "dealer" there won't be any dealers at the show, and there won't be a show to go to.

Wouldn't anyone prefer to make money over not making it? From all descriptions this was a common card, not a HOFer. Is there even another buyer out there for it?

So you are worried about the dealer making a profit, and you want to "coach" him on how to price his cards? What makes you think you need to assume a parental role over other adults who are running their business (yes, I know some people like to try to control other people when they can...)

If what you say is true, then the dealers who are overpricing their stuff will figure it out and make adjustments. The supply-demand dynamic works. Let dealers decide what they want to ask, let buyers decide what they are willing to pay, and the market, as it always does in a free capitalist economy, will work just fine. You, or other people, don't need to dictate what a "correct" price should be.

[Scocs]

Sorry, but I agree with Jason. These are supposed to be markets, NOT museums. Sometimes I wonder if dealers are more interested in showing their cards than in selling their cards.

I understand the dealer has overhead and profit to consider, but currently there is a Toletero that has beenon eBay forever that’s priced at $2000 that I don’t think is worth more than $200. Where are negations supposed to go, assuming the card is open to negotiation? $300...hell, even $200 now is worth more than $2000 never.

From the dealer’s p.o.v., I would hate to have to haggle over every card I sell, so I understand that point. So as it really is a two-way street of educated buyers and sellers necessary for positive transactions.

That’s what I think pisses Jason off so much, for good reason.

[Mark17]

Scott, I agree with you and Jason that a smart dealer who wants to make sales will price his stuff reasonably so it will sell. For the supply-demand concept to trigger, the buyer and seller need to be close enough that they can agree on a mutually acceptable price.

My disagreement is at the higher level - the attitude I see frequently in society, where people want to tell others how to live, or run their businesses. I've seen many dealers overprice things and the only persons who suffer are those dealers. A potential buyer does not suffer or incur any type of loss if they see something they would like to have, but it's priced ridiculously high.

So, dealers who adjust and price their stuff well will prosper, and those who don't will either learn, or not make very many sales. It's really simple, and it requires no "help" from third parties.

[Scocs]

Mark, I concur. For Jason, it’s the loss, though, of walking out empty handed without the card he wants. We’ve all been there and it sucks.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Scocs

Mark, I concur. For Jason, it’s the loss, though, of walking out empty handed without the card he wants. We’ve all been there and it sucks.

If I went through life thinking that way, I'd feel a sense of loss every time I saw a Corvette. :-)

It was a piece of cardboard. I'll bet he gets over it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If I went through life thinking that way, I'd feel a sense of loss every time I saw a Porsche Turbo. :-)

It was a piece of cardboard. I'll bet he gets over it.

I fixed that for you.

I agree, he will get over it.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I fixed that for you.

Oh, shoot! Ben when I first read this I thought, "He's sending me a Corvette!"

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Scocs

That’s what I think pisses Jason off so much, for good reason.

Hey everyone's entitled to feel however they want, but this is NOT a "good reason." You just got a cancer diagnosis, your wife was in a car accident, your dog died, your boss just promoted an idiot who does half the work, half as well as you, those are good reasons to be be pissed off. Someone asking more than you want to pay for a piece of cardboard is a minor annoyance at most for a well-adjusted person. JMHO.

[Jason19th]

Wow this went places that I just wasn’t expecting.

First of all I just want to reiterate that I had a great time at the National and walked away with a great item and some great conversations. I don’t really collect cards, I collect players and I am sure I will have the opportunity to find something with the player in the future. It was a mild annoyance that did nothing to cloud a great day.

Second however I think that it does deal with a bigger issue of markets and what makes a healthy market. No single buyer has to listen to any single seller and no single seller has to listen to any single buyer. Both buyers and sellers do however need to listen to THE MARKET. If a card is on eBay, it’s correctly listed and of clear quality and it has not sold for months that means that it is priced over market. If a dealer ignores this and prices the item at ten times the amount they are not really in the market. They are not selling they are displaying. The same from buyers. If a card routinely sells for a 1000 I can’t say I collect that card but I think the price is wrong. It’s not my choice, if I don’t want to pay the market rate I cannot say I collect that card. I may want it, but I don’t collect it.

My point is it’s bad when either sellers or buyers ignore the market. It creates an unhealthy market that will just die

[rajah424]

[/B]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Hey everyone's entitled to feel however they want, but this is NOT a "good reason." You just got a cancer diagnosis, your wife was in a car accident, your dog died, your boss just promoted an idiot who does half the work, half as well as you, people that act like they are authorities on every subject, those are good reasons to be be pissed off. Someone asking more than you want to pay for a piece of cardboard is a minor annoyance at most for a well-adjusted person. JMHO.

Fyp

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by rajah424

[/B]


Fyp

Don't know if that was directed at me, don't really care (see it didn't piss me off!) but as an authority, I would say that is also not a good reason to get pissed. You can simply disregard what I say.

People who get bent out of shape by stuff that doesn't materially affect them confuse me.

[Scocs]

Perhaps I’m conflating “being pissed off” with “being disappointed.”

And now back to our show!

[TanksAndSpartans]

The simple supply and demand model can be graphed with price on one axis and quantity on the other. There is no time indicator, so how long it will take to reach the point where a transaction is made is not shown. I often feel prices are set on eBay and elsewhere in kind of a “wait for the sucker” mode. It can be annoying to someone who knows the market well enough to make an educated guess as to where the item would end up if it went to auction, but those probably aren’t the buyers the seller is looking for.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Scocs

Perhaps I’m conflating “being pissed off” with “being disappointed.”

And now back to our show!

I'm completely on board with disappointment. Mahalo!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Don't know if that was directed at me, don't really care (see it didn't piss me off!) but as an authority, I would say that is also not a good reason to get pissed. You can simply disregard what I say.

People who get bent out of shape by stuff that doesn't materially affect them confuse me.

I have this conversation with my wife fairly often.

I see some things as very big picture things. Like when software is inconsistent, or has UI that's inconsistent. It bugs me a lot, even though it may have little to no direct effect on me. But then there's the show we saw where an inconsistency in labeling between a simulator and an airliner caused a crash.... so consistency in some things IS important.

As far as cards goes, or any other collectible for that matter... Overpriced stuff has a few bad effects. Some mentioned by others.
It used to really bother me 20 years ago. Less so now. Oddly dealers underpricing things out of ignorance has never bothered me much at all...

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by steve B

As far as cards goes, or any other collectible for that matter... Overpriced stuff has a few bad effects. Some mentioned by others.
It used to really bother me 20 years ago. Less so now. Oddly dealers underpricing things out of ignorance has never bothered me much at all...

Oddly I have very few buyers complain about getting good deals at my auctions either. Still waiting for someone to say "Great auction but I didn't pay nearly enough for the card I got so here's an extra $50."

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So you are worried about the dealer making a profit, and you want to "coach" him on how to price his cards? What makes you think you need to assume a parental role over other adults who are running their business (yes, I know some people like to try to control other people when they can...)

If what you say is true, then the dealers who are overpricing their stuff will figure it out and make adjustments. The supply-demand dynamic works. Let dealers decide what they want to ask, let buyers decide what they are willing to pay, and the market, as it always does in a free capitalist economy, will work just fine. You, or other people, don't need to dictate what a "correct" price should be.

I advise you to actually go to a card show. Let me know what you see in terms of pricing. Dealers aren't adjusting anything. It's the same tired table show after show until the dealer stops showing up. Nobody cares about profit and that's the issue. I can't tell you how many times I've had some bum dealer tell me what they "have into" a card and then use that as some basis for their price. What do I care what you paid? It has nothing to do with what I'm willing to pay for a card.

I'm not policing the pricing, it is a service that I'm providing. I'm telling you not to waste your time buying a table just to price your cards through the roof because you won't make any sales. In fact, maybe the dealers on the board should pay me a consulting fee for the money I've just saved them.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

I advise you to actually go to a card show. Let me know what you see in terms of pricing. Dealers aren't adjusting anything. It's the same tired table show after show until the dealer stops showing up. Nobody cares about profit and that's the issue. I can't tell you how many times I've had some bum dealer tell me what they "have into" a card and then use that as some basis for their price. What do I care what you paid? It has nothing to do with what I'm willing to pay for a card.

I'm not policing the pricing, it is a service that I'm providing. I'm telling you not to waste your time buying a table just to price your cards through the roof because you won't make any sales. In fact, maybe the dealers on the board should pay me a consulting fee for the money I've just saved them.

Other people aren't behaving as you wish they would.

It happens in a free society.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Other people aren't behaving as you wish they would.

It happens in a free society.

What do you do when you have a negative experience? Are you policing people when you talk about ways your experience could have been enjoyable? Your perspective makes criticisms sound like they're overly aggressive but I think it's a fairly common experience to share your opinions on ways you could have had a better time.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

What do you do when you have a negative experience? Are you policing people when you talk about ways your experience could have been enjoyable? Your perspective makes no sense to me.

I get to make decisions regarding things I own, and I extend the same courtesy to others. If there is something I want but cannot have, I simply walk away. And by the way, I am not wealthy so that happens a lot.

I am sorry that perspective makes no sense to you.

[packs]

I tried to amend my comment. What I really mean is that your perspective makes criticisms sound overly aggressive when they aren't. People are free to discuss things that would make something more enjoyable without wanting to exert control over people.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

I tried to amend my comment. What I really mean is that your perspective makes criticisms sound overly aggressive when they aren't. People are free to discuss things that would make something more enjoyable without wanting to exert control over people.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense to me, thanks for clarifying. The title of the thread is: Dealers need to learn more about foreign cards and from there the conversation has been about potential buyers trying to tell dealers what to do price-wise.

Look, I'd love to go on ebay, search for stuff I'd like, be able to name a price I would be willing to pay, and scoop a bunch of assets up at good prices. Problem is, until I buy them I do not own them and therefore I don't get to name the price.

I know what it's like to miss out because a dealer's price is too high. I have a collection of game used bats of the 1965 Twins, and only need 2 non-pitchers. A game bat of one of those guys recently popped up on ebay. Since the player is a common and the bat had no game use, I thought it was very over-priced. I made an offer, the seller made a counter-offer which I thought was still too high, so I rejected it and moved on.

I think I am one of the very few people looking for a bat of that specific player, and I think the offer I made was the best one he will ever get, but I didn't lecture him about it; I just walked away. He has a right to ask whatever price he wants and who knows, maybe he'll find someone who will pay it.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by packs

I advise you to actually go to a card show. Let me know what you see in terms of pricing. Dealers aren't adjusting anything. It's the same tired table show after show until the dealer stops showing up. Nobody cares about profit and that's the issue. I can't tell you how many times I've had some bum dealer tell me what they "have into" a card and then use that as some basis for their price. What do I care what you paid? It has nothing to do with what I'm willing to pay for a card.

This! plus 10000!... Whenever I hear this I always end up thinking to myself that I am not going to subsidize this poor dealers bad business decisions in buying a card(s) that are not rare, not in perfect condition and bail him out...I then thank him for his time and shuffle on along...

Just had this conversation with a dealer over a common he had priced 50% over guide on a mainstream 60's set and tell me he couldn't move on the price because he was into deep on it... smh... Thank you! have a good show....was a $10 card he had at $25....