PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Mark at this point along through this mess what makes you think PSA is obviously trying? Have you seen below one amongst many blatantly obvious altered cards...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?p=14874068

I see how the card doctors make money by altering and then selling cards. Unless and until I see evidence of some sort of kickbacks being paid by card doctors/sellers to PSA personnel, I do not see how PSA, or any of the TPG companies, benefit by missing altered cards.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I see how the card doctors make money by altering and then selling cards. Unless and until I see evidence of some sort of kickbacks being paid by card doctors/sellers to PSA personnel, I do not see how PSA, or any of the TPG companies, benefit by missing altered cards.

The point I’m making is they, PSA, doesn’t give a shit Mark !

They want you to accept it and get over or crack and resubmit so they make more money....

All the more accommodating to the bad actors doing crap to cards ....they’re not making it more difficulty they’re leaving the door wide open ....

They’re nothing but a irrelevant opining giving company that’s it...take Away their registry and they’re not taking as arrogantly

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

All the more accommodating to the bad actors doing crap to cards ....they’re not making it more difficulty they’re leaving the door wide open ....

If I leave the door of my house wide open and somebody walks in and robs me, that makes me careless and the other guy a thief. Which is worse?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If I leave the door of my house wide open and somebody walks in and robs me, that makes me careless and the other guy a thief. Which is worse?

I’m not gonna argue with you it’s like talking to a brick wall.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I’m not gonna argue with you it’s like talking to a brick wall.

I'm not a huge fan of TPG but when you put them next to outright criminals who are profiting hugely by creating this mess in the first place, it seems rather obvious which is the bigger problem.

Brick wall, indeed!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I'm not a huge fan of TPG but when you put them next to outright criminals who are profiting hugely by creating this mess in the first place, it seems rather obvious which is the bigger problem.

Brick wall, indeed!

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

[barrysloate]

I've said it before and will repeat: I don't think PSA really minds a proliferation of high grade cards in circulation. The set registry is their bread and butter, and you need a large population of high grade cards so that everybody can play. Perhaps it's in their best interest to turn a blind eye to all these altered cards. If high grade cards were genuinely hard to find, it would hurt the registry game.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Peter, after a lengthy debate awhile ago regarding the criminality of the actions of card doctors, I concluded you were correct, and you won me over to your way of looking at it.

I leave the door open to the possibility that as this plays out, I may also conclude that PSA is more culpable in this mess than I currently believe.

This is the process I like about these chat boards... they help my thinking evolve.

I have my popcorn; let the next act of this opera begin.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

+1 been saying for the past few months 100% agree Peter

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Why would you not care about Beckett? There is likely more evidence they have someone inside giving preferential treatment than there is at PSA.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was my initial perspective. I always knew TPGs missed a lot, but I attributed that mostly to the skill of the card doctors. I have suspected TPGs of preferential grading for a long time, but not being complicit in slabbing bad cards.

After what I've seen, and knowing that outed Moser-Huigens cards are just the tip of the iceberg, and seeing the nonsense that has come out of PSA in the form of Sloan's and Orlando's statements, my perspective has changed. PSA, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem, and I no longer trust their good faith. I'm not letting the others off the hook, just that SGC has a small relative market share and I don't care about Beckett. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Why would you trust a corporation when the sh*t hits the fan? Why would you think a public corporation in the service business is all about the customer? Why would you just now.... never mind. Stuff trumps all.

Too many rodeos for me. Glad I cashed most of my graded stuff a few years ago. Glad I held on to my ungraded altered Billy Ripkin cards. At least they are funny.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

The point I’m making is they, PSA, doesn’t give a shit Mark !

They want you to accept it and get over or crack and resubmit so they make more money....

All the more accommodating to the bad actors doing crap to cards ....they’re not making it more difficulty they’re leaving the door wide open ....

They’re nothing but a irrelevant opining giving company that’s it...take Away their registry and they’re not taking as arrogantly

As has previously been stated multiple times, way too many people are more interested in the grade than in the card. If you are a predator, it is generally safe to rely on human nature. Sad to say, but true. LOOK at the fuc@@ng cards, not the grade on the slab. How about we start there? It will certainly at least slow things down, although I am the first to admit that it will not stop it. Baby steps. At this point, that's what we have.

[frankbmd]

“I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it.”

“I’m Curious George, no you’re Curious George.”

Yogi Bear doth protest too much, methinks.”

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I see how the card doctors make money by altering and then selling cards. Unless and until I see evidence of some sort of kickbacks being paid by card doctors/sellers to PSA personnel, I do not see how PSA, or any of the TPG companies, benefit by missing altered cards.

they benefit by maximizing profit through spending a very limited amount of time evaluating every card. it's a winning strategy over the short term and potentially the long term unless individuals or a system hold them accountable.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by griffon512

they benefit by maximizing profit through spending a very limited amount of time evaluating every card. it's a winning strategy over the short term and potentially the long term unless individuals or a system hold them accountable.

Completely agree...

PSA benefits tremendously by wrongly assigning numerical grades to altered cards. Without the huge increase in dollars realized for a single numerical bump, the Doctors would not be producing and submitting these forgeries in such massive numbers. They are rewarded with such a huge pot of gold at the end of the "TPG Rainbow", that their submissions just keep pouring in... thus benefitting PSA.

Erroneous grading and bumping is what motivates the card doctors to continue and enables them to thrive. It creates a corrupt revenue stream in the form of a "golden triangle"... A perfect equilateral, with Card Doctor, Auction House, and TPG representing the 3 points. Go ahead and throw in eBay, if you want to make the shape of corruption a square.

The only one not included in all of this money-making geometric fun is the poor shlub who gets burned by the slabbed card.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Completely agree...

PSA benefits tremendously by wrongly assigning numerical grades to altered cards. Without the huge increase in dollars realized for a single numerical bump, the Doctors would not be producing and submitting these forgeries in such massive numbers. They are rewarded with such a huge pot of gold at the end of the "TPG Rainbow", that their submissions just keep pouring in... thus benefitting PSA.

Erroneous grading and bumping is what motivates the card doctors to continue and enables them to thrive. It creates a corrupt revenue stream in the form of a "golden triangle"... A perfect equilateral, with Card Doctor, Auction House, and TPG representing the 3 points. Go ahead and throw in eBay, if you want to make the shape of corruption a square.

The only one not included in all of this money-making geometric fun is the poor shlub who gets burned by the slabbed card.

Joe O's lameass statement/response is basically calling people stupid for spending ridiculous amounts of money for their assessments resulting in uber high grade cards.

If you want to "NOT BE CHEATED"...basically dont trust PSA. Joe said it himself!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Joe O's lameass statement/response is basically calling people stupid for spending ridiculous amounts of money for their assessments resulting in uber high grade cards.

If you want to "NOT BE CHEATED"...basically dont trust PSA. Joe said it himself!

And blaming the people outing altered cards for spreading fear.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And blaming the people outing altered cards for spreading fear.

Yes, that too...

What a self-serving piece of sh*t statement. Their word is the word of God.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Joe O's lameass statement/response is basically calling people stupid for spending ridiculous amounts of money for their assessments resulting in uber high grade cards.

If you want to "NOT BE CHEATED"...basically dont trust PSA. Joe said it himself!

Exactly +1