PWCC Huigens Now Has a Criminal Defense Attorney

[pokerplyr80]

David the rest of us would like updates about this case from Jeff. He stated he won't be coming on to provide them if comments like yours continue. Can we keep attacks on his personal life off the board for now at least? If for no other reason than to leave a valuable line of communication open?

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think there are NDAs but as I posted there is IMO no chance that whatever amount Brent and a few other card doctors pay back will even scratch the surface of the amount of their ill gotten gains, or the harm inflicted on the hobby.

Is it better than no restitution? Yes, of course. Is it an adequate punishment for the crime? That to me is the real question. We'll see what happens.

No restitution IMO was never a realistic scenario. One of PSA, PWCC, Ebay or the buyers credit card companies would have paid up. UFFDAH recieved restitution on the Maris very early on.

So I don’t consider buyers getting resitution for cards identified to be a win, thats the baseline.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by loucardfan

i’m curious as to who reached out to who. We all know brent reads the forums and has most likely seen where jeff has continually roasted him so it would take huge brains for brent to call him up and ask for his representation.


Sent from my iphone using tapatalk

fyp

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

fyp

Exactly, its brilliant. Neutralizes one if his biggest public, high profile detractors and by Jeffs own admission he is close with the FBI agent. You pay Jeff’s fee and this thing goes away.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The personal attacks on Jeff are way out of line. Really discussing his other cases is pretty pointless. Like others I would like to try and stay focused on the matters at hand. I'm on record as rooting against Jeff's client in this case and I would hope that he can understand why any number of us feel that way. But this other BS, and that's what it is, accomplishes what? Do you think it's going to have any affect on Jeff's career? (And if you do think that, you'd really screw with someone's career because they are representing someone you find reprehensible????) Forget the fact that it may cost us a connection to information that others may not have, I just don't understand the point of it. Forget for a minute that the Bar Association took no action, and his clients don't seem to have a problem, what do YOU hope to gain by posting this stuff???

[Arazi4442]

Originally Posted by japhi

Exactly, its brilliant. Neutralizes one if his biggest public, high profile detractors and by Jeffs own admission he is close with the FBI agent. You pay Jeff’s fee and this thing goes away.

So just another best justice money can buy scenario?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

David the rest of us would like updates about this case from Jeff. He stated he won't be coming on to provide them if comments like yours continue. Can we keep attacks on his personal life off the board for now at least? If for no other reason than to leave a valuable line of communication open?

Are you for real? Why would you believe anything he says?

[Snapolit1]

Personal stuff is beyond the pale. Would anyone on the board appreciate personal stuff? I don’t think so. You may not like his client but no need to engage in ad hominem attacks.

Jeff doesn’t need anyone blowing smoke up him ass. He’s obviously extraordinarily good at what he does. Some of you might not like lawyers and what they do. Entitled to your opinion. You prob won’t feel the same way when you or a family member has the government coming after them.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Personal stuff is beyond the pale. Would anyone on the board appreciate personal stuff? I don’t think so. You may not like his client but no need to engage in ad hominem attacks.

Same question to you that I asked Jason. Where were you when Jeff was making personal attacks on Brent?

But, again, it's not a personal attack. It's to show that Jeff doesn't give a shit about anybody but Jeff. Many of you have had the wool pulled over your eyes and you're too blind to see it but, like I said, Jeff has you guys so fooled. You actually think he gives a shit about this hobby. What a bunch a puppets.

[bobfreedman]

Jeff will take his ball and take it home if we don't stop picking on him? If we dont stop picking on him, he wont give us updates. I am sorry but, he brought this upon himself. He was the one who made claims against Brent and PSA and now if we behave, we will be allowed to read his posts? BLECH!!!! I am sure I will be ok without them as most of what will come out will be public record anyway.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Jeff was attacking Brent concerning his actions in the hobby. I don't think you are using personal the way the rest of us are.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Same question to you that I asked Jason. Where were you when Jeff was making personal attacks on Brent?

But, again, it's not a personal attack. It's to show that Jeff doesn't give a shit about anybody but Jeff. Many of you have had the wool pulled over your eyes and you're too blind to see it but, like I said, Jeff has you guys so fooled. You actually think he gives a shit about this hobby. What a bunch a puppets.

Oh, so lawyers really tend to "spin" things just to suit their needs and sway public opinion. I'm shocked!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Jeff was attacking Brent concerning his actions in the hobby. I don't think you are using personal the way the rest of us are.

Yup, Jeff was attacking Brent concerning his actions in the hobby - in other words Brent's career, right? So what's the problem with me "attacking" Jeff about his career?

You certainly fell for Jeff's bullshit hook, line and sinker.

And I don't give a shit if Jeff doesn't update the board. You think he's really going to tell us anything that we can read somewhere else? Like he's going to give us some secret shit? Get real!

Do yourself a favor next time you're in the grocery store check out line. Grab you a National Enquirer and read it. It has more credibility than Jeff ever had.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yup, Jeff was attacking Brent concerning his actions in the hobby - in other words Brent's career, right? So what's the problem with me "attacking" Jeff about his career?

You certainly fell for Jeff's bullshit hook, line and sinker.

And I don't give a shit if Jeff doesn't update the board. You think he's really going to tell us anything that we can read somewhere else? Like he's going to give us some secret shit? Get real!

Do yourself a favor next time you're in the grocery store check out line. Grab you a National Enquirer and read it. It has more credibility than Jeff ever had.

You really are special.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You really are special.

Keep defending the married man sexting his girlfriend. The content of your character is really showing through.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I think if we took a poll I might edge you slightly in a content of our character contest. You seem to confuse "character" with "agreeing with you." I see it as being fair. Jeff's personal life has absolutely no bearing on the subject in which this board is interested. Bringing it up shows a lack of character.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I think if we took a poll I might edge you slightly in a content of our character contest. You seem to confuse "character" with "agreeing with you." I see it as being fair. Jeff's personal life has absolutely no bearing on the subject in which this board is interested. Bringing it up shows a lack of character.

Do you have morals at all? Does your moral compass know which direction north is?

[JeremyW]

My only problem with Jeff is in the CBS Norah O'Donnell interview when he says El Chappo has been good/nice to him. He's way too smart to fail to understand that all criminals work that way. Even some people here have been fooled by shysters that were really nice to them.

Jeremy W@goner

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am certainly in favor of restitution. I agree that it would not have happened this early if at all without Jeff's involvement.

And you know this how?

[Piratedogcardshows]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Jeff will take his ball and take it home if we don't stop picking on him? If we dont stop picking on him, he wont give us updates. I am sorry but, he brought this upon himself. He was the one who made claims against Brent and PSA and now if we behave, we will be allowed to read his posts? BLECH!!!! I am sure I will be ok without them as most of what will come out will be public record anyway.

Agreed. I could care less if he comes on again and gives "inside " information on the case or anything for that matter. He chose his side on this one.

[Frank A]

As indian would say, Jeff speak with forked tongue. Take wampum and screw braves.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Do you have morals at all? Does your moral compass know which direction north is?

What does one's morals have to do with what Jeff or anyone else here does in their personal lives?? Unless Jeff's wife was my sister...who cares???? It's 180 degrees different attacking Jeff on a board about card collecting then Brent, who is involved in cards and has purposely willed money out of buyers. I'm not sure how you're even equating the two in the same universe???

If you just don't like Jeff, fine. I guess say that...although I'm not even really sure why that's relevant either.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Jason

Agreed. I could care less if he comes on again and gives "inside " information on the case or anything for that matter. He chose his side on this one.

Anyone thinking he's going to give N54 insider info is.....well, just wrong. Laughable really. Anyone thinking that he's taken Brentsy's case out of the best interest of the hobby is...well, just wrong. Again, laughable. His interest lies in protecting PWCC...period.

Anyone think he took El Chapo's case because he cares about the drug crisis? Gotti's case because he's concerned about organized crime?

[CuriousGeorge]

Do you people really think Jeffrey needs Brent's fee? He represents people whose fees are into the 7 and 8 figures and has zero financial need to represent Brent. What he does have is a love of the hobby and is in a unique position to try and do his part to help fix this as best as he possibly can.

Did you read what he has written about Brent before he took him on as a client? Do you think on a personal level and as a baseball card collector he feels any differently today? I can assure you his level of nausea is as high as all of ours is.

Although I am not privy to the innerworkings of exactly what is transpiring between all of the parties (Jeff, Brent, law enforcement, etc), I am as familiar as any of you are as to the type of person and attorney he is. It would completely go against everything I know about the guy my entire life if he is just going to accept some BS fee that he doesn't need to roll over on the hobby he loves so much.

In the few months since this has all come out, apparently significant amounts of restitution has been paid back to people f*cked over by Brent, Moser and the rest. Articles have appeared in the national media that might not have appeared otherwise. Word is slowly circulating throughout the hobby while Steve Sloan and PSA are putting out ridiculous propaganda pieces. Would you prefer Sloan's statements to be the authority on how this all plays out?

I know you're all pissed off and I am too. We all wish Brent would lose every penny he has, go out of business, and share a cell with Moser for the next 10 years. But the reality in this country is that is not likely to happen. But what I can assure you is that this is the early innings of a 9 inning game and I suspect there will be more to come. Try to think through this rationally....does a guy who represents John Gotti Jr and El Chapo need to take a case like this for the fee? Or is there more to this?

My suggestion to everyone, if possible, is to take a deep breath and let this play out. Stop attacking him for things that have nothing to do with the case as we all have skeletons in our closet and some here have skeletons in the hobby. When he was suing Mastro, leading the fight against Mastro, most of you were attacking him too – mainly because you were in bed with Mastro or because he had pointed out your own fraud. Try to see the bigger picture here and reread what he had to say about Brent a mere few weeks ago. While I am in no way insinuating he would ever do anything not in the best interest of his client, I suspect there is more here than you or I can know. Let's see where this goes in the next few months and I imagine we all could be pleasantly surprised.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Anyone thinking he's going to give N54 insider info is.....well, just wrong. Laughable really. Anyone thinking that he's taken Brentsy's case out of the best interest of the hobby is...well, just wrong. Again, laughable. His interest lies in protecting PWCC...period.

Anyone think he took El Chapo's case because he cares about the drug crisis? Gotti's case because he's concerned about organized crime?

Maybe he's just bad at judging character? Even Leon got fooled by the Mastro guys.

Jeremy W@goner.

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Do you people really think Jeffrey needs Brent's fee? He represents people whose fees are into the 7 and 8 figures and has zero financial need to represent Brent. What he does have is a love of the hobby and is in a unique position to try and do his part to help fix this as best as he possibly can.

Wrong wrong and wrong, he IS doing it for the money, he came on the board and said as much. He does not care about the hobby either, he cares about his collection. The only thing I agree with you is that we should not attack him personally but, I think that about anyone everyone on the board.

[japhi]

Will Mom be joing the forum to defend him next?

And the “does he need the fee” argument is ridiculous. I bet he is making his standard fee or more. And getting paid very handsomely. Which is his perogative, I couldn’t care less. God bless him, someone has to represent Brent. Does he need the fee, who knows, but unless he is working pro bono I will assume he is working for the fee.

Listen he was the guy crowing that Brent should go to jail and will be the one that ensures Brent doesn’t go to jail. Brents highest profile detractor is now his defender. To try and spin this as doing the hobby a favour is laughable.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by japhi

Will Mom be joing the forum to defend him next?

And the “does he need the fee” argument is ridiculous. I bet he is making his standard fee or more. And getting paid very handsomely. Which is his perogative, I couldn’t care less. God bless him, someone has to represent Brent. Does he need the fee, who knows, but unless he is working pro bono I will assume he is working for the fee.

Listen he was the guy crowing that Brent should go to jail and will be the one that ensures Brent doesn’t go to jail. Brents highest profile detractor is now his adversary. To try and spin this as doing the hobby a favour is laughable.

Brent or Betsy must be very convincing.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Maybe he's just bad at judging character? Even Leon got fooled by the Mastro guys.

Jeremy W@goner.

I think if you go back and look you will see I wasn't as much fooled as I took a wait and see approach. For the record, Mastro was never an advertiser on this forum. And lastly, if you go back and look, I can guarantee I never said either Mastro or Doug weren't guilty. I just wouldn't do that. It gets said so much it is believed but is far from the truth. Go spend some time and find it, you won't. Mostly it's little internet anonymous trolls that spread the lies and then folks like yourself believe them. It's ok, you aren't alone. I usually just let these kind of statements go but figure I might as well correct the incorrect record of some things. Now, that all said, of course both of those guys are charismatic. A lot of people committing fraud are. I should also say, at one time I admit I was friendly with Doug and Mastro but only in a few hobby scenarios.....and never knew they committed fraud until it came out they did. And in the end, except for restitution, got mostly what it seemed they deserved.

As far as Jeff defending Brent, while leading the charge against fraud in the hobby, I will let others discuss it.

[CuriousGeorge]

Bob and Matt, with all due respect, I think I'm in a position to know better. No one on this board thinks Brent is more of a piece of garbage than I do. No one wants to see him pay for his crimes more than me. I was inches away from giving this idiot a bunch of money as an investment and fortunately was advised not to at the last moment. I set up a vault and was about to send cards to him and thankfully was convinced not to. I'm pissed off, you all are too, and we all have every right to be. The optics of him representing this trash looks bad, but yet the FBI is happy about it. What does that tell you?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

Wrong wrong and wrong, he IS doing it for the money, he came on the board and said as much. He does not care about the hobby either, he cares about his collection. The only thing I agree with you is that we should not attack him personally but, I think that about anyone everyone on the board.

Originally Posted by japhi

Will Mom be joing the forum to defend him next?

And the “does he need the fee” argument is ridiculous. I bet he is making his standard fee or more. And getting paid very handsomely. Which is his perogative, I couldn’t care less. God bless him, someone has to represent Brent. Does he need the fee, who knows, but unless he is working pro bono I will assume he is working for the fee.

Listen he was the guy crowing that Brent should go to jail and will be the one that ensures Brent doesn’t go to jail. Brents highest profile detractor is now his adversary. To try and spin this as doing the hobby a favour is laughable.

You two gentlemen are hilarious and I completely agree.

There is no way this is going to be good for the hobby.

[slidekellyslide]

Steven, you're in a position to know Jeff's motives better because you almost set up a vault with PWCC? That doesn't even make sense.

[CuriousGeorge]

[QUOTE=slidekellyslide;1902143]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Bob and Matt, with all due respect, I think I'm in a position to know better./QUOTE]

You're in a position to know Jeff's motives better because you almost set up a vault with PWCC? That doesn't even make sense.

Why don't you look at the name on my account?

[slidekellyslide]

[QUOTE=CuriousGeorge;1902144]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Why don't you look at the name on my account?

I noticed that a long time ago, but I guess never asked. Is he your brother? I don't ask every member named Smith, Jones and Peterson if they are related.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Bob and Matt, with all due respect, I think I'm in a position to know better. No one on this board thinks Brent is more of a piece of garbage than I do. No one wants to see him pay for his crimes more than me. I was inches away from giving this idiot a bunch of money as an investment and fortunately was advised not to at the last moment. I set up a vault and was about to send cards to him and thankfully was convinced not to. I'm pissed off, you all are too, and we all have every right to be. The optics of him representing this trash looks bad, but yet the FBI is happy about it. What does that tell you?

That tells me that the FBI would like to knock this one out and move on. Jeff gets paid, PWCC makes relatively minor restitution, and the FBI gets to release a favourable press release. Win win win. This won’t ever hit the courts and there will not be a full accounting. The message in the hobby will be fraud pays. The hobby will be the big loser here.

How do you see this ending?

[JeremyW]

I never said anything about advertisements. You thought they were your friends, but they turned out to be criminals. That's all I inferred. Not your fault. Criminals are nice to people that they make a lot of money from.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Bob and Matt, with all due respect, I think I'm in a position to know better. No one on this board thinks Brent is more of a piece of garbage than I do. No one wants to see him pay for his crimes more than me. I was inches away from giving this idiot a bunch of money as an investment and fortunately was advised not to at the last moment. I set up a vault and was about to send cards to him and thankfully was convinced not to. I'm pissed off, you all are too, and we all have every right to be. The optics of him representing this trash looks bad, but yet the FBI is happy about it. What does that tell you?

You can't hate him more than I do.

[CuriousGeorge]

Yes he is my younger brother which only makes me even more infuriated that he would represent such a lying, slimy piece of garbage, who intentionally tried to f*ck me and did so to many of you. But all I can say now is grab of box of popcorn and watch this play out. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by japhi

That tells me that the FBI would like to knock this one out and move on. Jeff gets paid, PWCC makes relatively minor restitution, and the FBI gets to release a favourable press release. Win win win. This won’t ever hit the courts and there will not be a full accounting. The message in the hobby will be fraud pays. The hobby will be the big loser here.

How do you see this ending?

Matt, you may be right but I hope you're wrong. He can't dictate how the FBI chooses to handle this but he can lay out the picture in a way few others can. My brother has very few things in life that mean a lot to him and this hobby is one of them. He has more business than hours in a year. He has no need for this case financially.

[JollyElm]

When is the Moser family reunion happening? Maybe he'll send his siblings on here to blow smoke up our asses, too.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

He has no need for this case financially.

With a wife and a girlfriend, I think you're wrong.

Just because someone makes a lot of money, doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I know people that make $200K a year and are drowning in debt. Then again, you hear about these reclusive people with low paying jobs that pass away and come to find out afterwards they're millionaires because they never spent a dime. It's not how much you make, it's how much you bank.

The fact that you equate his wealth with his income shows what little you know, brother or not.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Yes he is my younger brother which only makes me even more infuriated that he would represent such a lying, slimy piece of garbage, who intentionally tried to f*ck me and did so to many of you. But all I can say now is grab of box of popcorn and watch this play out. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war.

Steven - Jeff is a defense attorney....wouldn’t it be accurate to say more often then not he and every other defense attorney deals mostly with slime balls and not that small field of “wrongly accused innocent victims”? A potential client called Jeff and offered him a job and Jeff took it. Not really any different then the rest of us that profit off someone through work that we think is a jerk.

[griffon512]

How do you see it playing out Steven? What would constitute a win for the hobby in your eyes in concrete terms? We can compare what it looks like a year from now versus what your expectation is. My primary concern is nothing will materially change in the hobby. That is my expectation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, that's a load of crap! I'm not an attorney and I don't know what is or is not an ethical violation, but do you think if he was in court while texting/thinking about his girlfriend that he can fully focus on the trial? How about this line from the article, "Lichtman also told his paramour that she was distracting him from the drug lord’s case. He said, according to the Post, that he was 'spending more time on your case than on the one where I got paid a million dollars.'"


And maybe that's not an ethical violation. I don't know and I don't care.
But it goes back to my original point. How do you focus on your client's best interest when the focus is on other things? I don't think you read the entire article. And this is not a personal attack on Jeff's character, it's to show that Jeff doesn't give a shit about anybody but Jeff.

Question for you though. If you were a defense attorney, would you defend Brent? And please don't give me the typical lawyer answer, "Well, but I'm not a defense attorney...blah, blah, blah." It's a hypothetical question. Would you or would you not defend Brent?

I read it when it came out. It was a vicious personal attack that was not newsworthy and had no place even in a scummy tabloid. Considering the source, I doubt much of it was even accurate. And until today, even people who hate Jeff have been classy enough not to post it. It's a baseball card chatboard, not a sewer.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I never said anything about advertisements. You thought they were your friends, but they turned out to be criminals. That's all I inferred. Not your fault. Criminals are nice to people that they make a lot of money from.

Well, I agree with that. It was unfortunate and it is still sad it happened. But greed is what it is.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

With a wife and a girlfriend, I think you're wrong.

Just because someone makes a lot of money, doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I know people that make $200K a year and are drowning in debt. Then again, you hear about these reclusive people with low paying jobs that pass away and come to find out afterwards they're millionaires because they never spent a dime. It's not how much you make, it's how much you bank.

The fact that you equate his wealth with his income shows what little you know, brother or not.

You’re solely making this personal against Jeff. If it came out Robert Shapiro was Brent’s counsel you wouldn’t say a word.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

You’re solely making this personal against Jeff. If it came out Robert Shapiro was Brent’s counsel you wouldn’t say a word.

I might.

Shapiro defended OJ (one of very few people even more despicable than Brent! )

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

With a wife and a girlfriend, I think you're wrong.

Just because someone makes a lot of money, doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I know people that make $200K a year and are drowning in debt. Then again, you hear about these reclusive people with low paying jobs that pass away and come to find out afterwards they're millionaires because they never spent a dime. It's not how much you make, it's how much you bank.

The fact that you equate his wealth with his income shows what little you know, brother or not.

All I can say to this is I’m sure 99% of you wish you were in the financial position he is. I’m not bragging because I’m sure he could care less what any of you think but again, he did not take this case for the fee. As hard as this may be to do, try and think through how this problem would have played out without his involvement. Like all of the others maybe? People are getting paid back for altered cards, stories are getting written in national papers, and so on. Do you think with any of your involvement this could have happened? Is it better nothing gets done or all of us just complaining on message boards?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I read it when it came out. It was a vicious personal attack that was not newsworthy and had no place even in a scummy tabloid. Considering the source, I doubt much of it was even accurate. And until today, even people who hate Jeff have been classy enough not to post it. It's a baseball card chatboard, not a sewer.

A scummy tabloid? Ok, would you like to read it from another source?

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barst...-bernie-madoff

What exactly are you saying, Peter? That these text exchanges never took place? Read the linked article. It gives even more detail about the texts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

A scummy tabloid? Ok, would you like to read it from another source?

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barst...-bernie-madoff

What exactly are you saying, Peter? That these text exchanges never took place? Read the linked article. It gives even more detail about the texts.

I could not care less about Jeff's personal life. It's just that -- his personal life. Nobody should be publishing someone's private text messages about personal matters.