N284 Buchner Gold Coin Checklist Add?

[teza11]

Better picture showing more detail.

[1880nonsports]

I'm an idiot. That said - I'd buy the card. No-one so far is offering a reasonable explanation for WHAT THE MOTIVATION would be. Nearly impossible to replicate artistically and with proper stock/inks without time and money for little return on a common in a lightly collected set and ostensibly no reason other than perhaps a personal project like the Krause guy....

[bigfanNY]

I absolutely believe your first sentence ..me too but not in this case I have seen to many folks burned and learned this lessen. You are exactly why cards like this get produced. You see this card and the first impression is that it is old. You overlook the fact that they did not, as you say "artistically reproduce the card" they produced something similar. Possibly on older card stock but could be aged ( that is one of the things You cannt tell without card in hand). So you start from the premise that it is real. Careful inspection shows that there are alot of inconsistencies but not enough to tip the scale of your "First Impression". People buy cards on Ebay where the seller says "I think this is a reprint so I am selling it as one". Thoughts like even if it's not a gold coin at least it's old, even if it's not a Gold Coin maybe even rarer than a Gold coin. Money /greed combined with the ego boost of look at me I found something. Powerful stuff. But hot like a coal and you get easily burned.
You can collect whatever you like your money. But the OP came here asking if it was a non cataloged Gold Coin. And the answer to that is NO.
I used the Shit vs Shinola example before it is a very old saying. Both are brown and if you rub them into your shoes the become darker brown. But one dont smell so good.

[1880nonsports]

still don't see it. You can get as worked up as you want and repeat yourself a dozen times. Neither one of us has the card in hand. Anomalies are just that. I can point out a dozen in the set. Nobody was trying to introduce a new card into the hobby that has no real value in an unpopular "set" (poster cards, cut cards, cards with backs). I am NOT saying it IS real. I'm saying more likely than not that it is. That's an OPINION. You say your comments are all factual yet just like me you don't have it in hand. Not like it's a blatant forgery that's easily pointed out. Jeff finds many unusual items as he searches the globe - mainly in Europe I believe. Not impossible this is an actual item - maybe a proof - a card that never was - something from an image on a trade card.

[1880nonsports]

why? Why that one - why did he try and fail? Strange set and person to chose for the forger - nothing easier for them to tackle? Why oh why? BTW - while I'm at it - he took the time and the obvious skills and he couldn't think to replicate something like the laces or copy the right uniform? He ran out of time? He forgot? He wasn't too smart? That's some leap - hope there are flower petals at the bottom.

[bigfanNY]

Why did he fail? He failed because the folks that drew the original Gold Coins were pretty good at it. Laces ears baseball no belt loops...many inconsistencies. And he was NOT trying to duplicate a card he was trying to produce a product that has value because it MIGHT BE SOMETHING....

And the Facts are Wrong size Wrong Back. Wrong card stock.
But one person here has even stated that even if it TPG's refused to holder it he would still believe it's good?? ...

And I am sure the person who produced the card is really enjoying this thread. Look at back how edges are dark from trying to force age if it was pasted in a scrapbook like the back indicates wouldn't the front have aged faster than the back? And the dollar sign written on the back is a wonderful subliminal message.

[RCMcKenzie]

Jon, It would be easier to follow your position if you claimed it was an elaborate hoax to fool hobby experts. It's not a shoddy fake to make a quick buck off of rube, casual ebay collectors such as myself.. It's not a "manner of Cezanne" painting or an AG Anson, it's a Charles Jacque in a dead ringer manner of Jacque, a Buchner common.Rob

[oldjudge]

A one minute look at the card with a loope will tell if the card is good or not. My sense is that there is no economic incentive to forge a card like this, and it looks like most Buchners. My bet is that it was produced by Buchner, not a forger.

[bigfanNY]

RC although it might be easier to follow It is what it is. One of a group of cards produced to generate money. I am not one of the 500 lawyers Leon says are on this board. But I know if you reprint/ counterfeit cards you sell them and get cought there are specific fraud statutes that can be promlamatic. If you produce cards like this it is part of a "fantasy" set. And this is not a $50 or $100 one card problem. Hundreds of folks are burned every year with similar cards.
5 decades of roaming through flea markets ( even a couple in Europe) card shows paper, postcard, Antique shows. I have seen many items that first impression was $$ only to be disapointed when I looked closer. And even worse paid money then took it home and looked closer and was disappointed. Really I dont care if any of the deep pockets that have come out and said "it looks good to me" buy this card or a hundred like it. My concern is guy or worse kid in hobby out there hunting and falling into this type of trap. It hurts and if all I did was make a few folks look a little closer at their "find" I am ok with that. I have nothing in this and no personal grudge against anyone on board. But over the past few years I sent PM's to folks I thought had problem cards. Most said thanks and looked closer but a couple ended up getting passed on to other collectors. And I dont want to do that anymore.

[buchner]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

still don't see it. You can get as worked up as you want and repeat yourself a dozen times. Neither one of us has the card in hand. Anomalies are just that. I can point out a dozen in the set. Nobody was trying to introduce a new card into the hobby that has no real value in an unpopular "set" (poster cards, cut cards, cards with backs). I am NOT saying it IS real. I'm saying more likely than not that it is. That's an OPINION. You say your comments are all factual yet just like me you don't have it in hand. Not like it's a blatant forgery that's easily pointed out. Jeff finds many unusual items as he searches the globe - mainly in Europe I believe. Not impossible this is an actual item - maybe a proof - a card that never was - something from an image on a trade card.

HENRY......Not unpopular with me

[bigfanNY]

So if your argument is that it is too expensive to create fake. Then Why would Buchner create one card in a different size than all the tens of thousands they produced? Given the size of pack specific size had to be followed. And on different card stock.
And if you say it could be cut from a sheet then your single card argument goes out the window. Because a sheet full a fakes definitely is worthwhile.
If anyone this weekend found a similar card and looked online ge could find a checklist that lists this card. Now the owner of site says he has not verified the card in the fine print. But the checklist has the card. This makes me sad.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

So if your argument is that it is too expensive to create fake. Then Why would Buchner create one card in a different size than all the tens of thousands they produced? Given the size of pack specific size had to be followed. And on different card stock.
And if you say it could be cut from a sheet then your single card argument goes out the window. Because a sheet full a fakes definitely is worthwhile.
If anyone this weekend found a similar card and looked online ge could find a checklist that lists this card. Now the owner of site says he has not verified the card in the fine print. But the checklist has the card. This makes me sad.

Judging by the harsh tone of your other posts, I realize your entire point is to elicit a reaction so that's fine. That's what happens on message boards. I'll play along with a single response.

I listed the card in the checklist on my site because the owner stated it had the same back as a regular Buchner card. As others have pointed out, there's no reason to really suspect foul play here. This is not an otherwise important card. The card's front looked legit to me from the front. It still does. You have a different opinion and you're entitled to that opinion. As others have stated, it is an opinion no less or more valid than ours. You can continue to state ad nauseam that it is but that does not make it so.

I removed the card from the checklist after the owner stated here that it had a blank back. And your 'fine print' statement is at best, wildly inaccurate, and at worst, entirely wrong. The statement mentions this thread in the regular article text, same font, same size. It's hardly fine print by anyone's definition. And if that 'makes you sad', I encourage you to visit other sites. There are plenty of them out there. Enjoy.

My firm belief is that it is a poster cut. For one thing, as I wrote in an article recently, there are more than one Buchner posters that were printed, even within the style that has print on the front. That was proven as I recently found a card with lettering on it that did not match up to the sole poster example I have personally seen (it's actually on the Net54 site). For another thing, as others have stated, there are plenty of Buchner poster cuts out there. They are not exceptionally scarce. And for another thing, there are other examples of cards that were printed that did not make their way into sets. That's not even considering things like extreme shortprints that were quickly pulled from production like the two cards in the T227 set. That a card could exist on a poster that was not subsequently put into production is hardly a surprise to me.

Again, you are of the belief the card is not legitimate. And you may vehemently disagree with everything I just stated. Again, that's perfectly fine. Perhaps you are right and perhaps not. But to try to bully your thinking into everyone else is irrational and hurling insults because everyone isn't on your side is silly.

[bigfanNY]

First last night just before the post I looked at your site for the first time and the Toole was still listed in the checklist. I just looked now and it is gone that is all the response I was trying to elicit.
Second you point out all the known ad cards that this is similar to but forget to mention that the size is wrong and dose not match up to any other example.
What was the reason for the one off?
Like many of the responses you point out an example of an inconsistency that is similar to the OP card.( but the quality of the pic is poor so tough to be sure) but even if You buy into that. Why are there so many inconsistencies on one card?
Combine that with size being wrong, card stock and appearance of back.
As for hurling insults I dont think I responded to anyone personally. This is not a personal thing this is a fake card thing.