"Possibly doctored" cards at the National.....

[BigBeerGut]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Who buys a raw 52 Mantle or mid-grade T206 Cobb?

Edited to add: or any expensive card that common sense dictates should be in a holder. If an expensive common issue card (T206, 50s Topps) is being sold raw or in a non-PSA or SGC holder you can be certain it’s altered. And yes even in a PSA or SGC holder we have learned it can be altered. But if it’s raw you can be certain it is no matter how vociferously the seller tries to convince you it isn’t.

Calvin! Does this mean there are NO cards that are raw that are not altered? So it is not worthwhile to send any more cards in to any TPG? It is either already graded or raw and altered. Thats it. Close down the TPGs there are no more cards to grade
"Mike" drop

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut

Calvin! Does this mean there are NO cards that are raw that are not altered? So it is not worthwhile to send any more cards in to any TPG? It is either already graded or raw and altered. Thats it. Close down the TPGs there are no more cards to grade
"Mike" drop

The guys that found the mantle in the attic, inherited them or whatever , and have have zero invested in it and can submit in for grading and can do that all day. but why ask for 10,000 for a card or pay for that on a raw card..

He is basically talking about in the long run. Some are legit but its an unwise gamble. Some people win in vegas, most lose.....

[Arazi4442]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The guys that found the mantle in the attic, inherited them or whatever , and have have zero invested in it and can submit in for grading and can do that all day. but why ask for 10,000 for a card or pay for that on a raw card..

He is basically talking about in the long run. Some are legit but its an unwise gamble. Some people win in vegas, most lose.....

Wait a minute, some people win in Vegas? That has NOT been my experience.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Arazi4442

Wait a minute, some people win in Vegas? That has NOT been my experience.

yeah the people that put everything on black and if win leave and go home....those about the only winners.. and the people that bet the Nationals to win the NL this year... who will either win bet or have a great hedge..

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

yeah the people that put everything on black and if win leave and go home....those about the only winners.. and the people that bet the Nationals to win the NL this year... who will either win bet or have a great hedge..

My brother "won"

We were visiting on a camping trip and stopped in a casino to go to the buffet. (All you can eat, so in a way I "won" too being a hungry high school kid. especially at the soft serve ice cream dispenser )
Someone hit a dollar slot for more than he could carry, and my brother being 8 followed along picking up the dropped silver dollars.
Security got involved.
They brought over the winner, still carrying an armload of coins, and gave dad a lecture about letting his kid steal. letting was a stretch, none of us even knew.
About 30 seconds into the lecture the guy asked "how much did the kid get? My brother showed him 2 fistfuls of dollars, around $11 which isn't bad for an 8 year old.
The guy was like " you brought me all the way over here for $11?! let the kid keep it! and walked away to cash in his dollars.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut

Calvin! Does this mean there are NO cards that are raw that are not altered? So it is not worthwhile to send any more cards in to any TPG? It is either already graded or raw and altered. Thats it. Close down the TPGs there are no more cards to grade
"Mike" drop

oh, there are many many cards to grade. Just crack them out of the stupid plastic, dip, color, trim and repeat. That's all that has been done since inception anyway. recycled fake cards is all that's left.

[orly57]

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut

Calvin! Does this mean there are NO cards that are raw that are not altered? So it is not worthwhile to send any more cards in to any TPG? It is either already graded or raw and altered. Thats it. Close down the TPGs there are no more cards to grade
"Mike" drop

Of course there are high dollar raw cards out there that haven’t been altered. They are in basements and private collections. They are NOT at the National. Why would a dealer have a raw 52 mantle, when psa is 10 feet away? The answer is: it’s already been graded and received an “A” or a grade that was not satisfactory to the dealer. He thinks he can sell it to a treasure hunter raw for more than he would have with the grade it received. Jeff’s point is that experienced dealers don’t buy booths at the National, spend money on travel and hotel expenses, etc so they can leave money on the table. Sure, you can find a raw t206 common that will grade a bit higher than you paid, but it’s not happening with high dollar cards. If a raw 52 mantle looks like a 5 and the dealer wants psa 4-5 prices for it, rest assured it once sat in a 3 holder or worse. It’s just common sense.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Wonder if you could make a killing selling black lights and loupes at the show

[orly57]

If psa graders can’t spot doctored cards in the comfort of their offices, with all the tools and gadgets, I’m not sure that some dude with a black light and pocket magnifying glass is going to be single-handedly uncovering rampant fraud at the National.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by orly57

If psa graders can’t spot doctored cards in the comfort of their offices, with all the tools and gadgets, I’m not sure that some dude with a black light and pocket magnifying glass is going to be single-handedly uncovering rampant fraud at the National.

Not what I meant. I meant selling the devices. maybe a high energy demonstration, draw some attention.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by orly57

Of course there are high dollar raw cards out there that haven’t been altered. They are in basements and private collections. They are NOT at the National. Why would a dealer have a raw 52 mantle, when psa is 10 feet away? The answer is: it’s already been graded and received an “A” or a grade that was not satisfactory to the dealer. He thinks he can sell it to a treasure hunter raw for more than he would have with the grade it received. Jeff’s point is that experienced dealers don’t buy booths at the National, spend money on travel and hotel expenses, etc so they can leave money on the table. Sure, you can find a raw t206 common that will grade a bit higher than you paid, but it’s not happening with high dollar cards. If a raw 52 mantle looks like a 5 and the dealer wants psa 4-5 prices for it, rest assured it once sat in a 3 holder or worse. It’s just common sense.

The Battlefield business model. I mean Candiman. I mean, whoever they are now.