Washington Post article on the altered card scandal

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

At this point, what defense is there for people that continue to do business with or associate with PWCC?

Arthur

They offer a level of service that no one else provides in the hobby.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

They offer a level of service that no one else provides in the hobby.

meaning they "enhance" the physical appearance of cards without dislosing their alterations and have them authenticated as unaltered and then sell them at inflated prices to the sheeple?

This service?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

meaning they "enhance" the physical appearance of cards without dislosing their alterations and authenticate them as unaltered and then sell them at inflated prices to the sheeple?

This service?

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

And with a little shilling mixed in, it's the perfect venue for consignors who have no use for integrity, honesty and morality.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

I have never met Brent, nor am I defending him. I enjoy this hobby and being able to easily sell items to fund purchases is an important part of what makes it enjoyable for me.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I have never met Brent, nor am I defending him. I enjoy this hobby and being able to easily sell items to fund purchases is an important part of what makes it enjoyable for me.

Not defending but supporting them financially by consigning, which is actually worse in my opinion.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Not defending but supporting them financially by consigning, which is actually worse in my opinion.

Worse? Morally? Ethically? I don't lose sleep over giving a company my baseball cards to sell on eBay for me.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

Lol! Seriously, how little personal integrity does one have to have to still be doing business with them!?!

"A Man is Known by the Company He Keeps" <——-THIS!

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

I assume then you're completely fine paying retail for graded cards that are actually altered/authentic. No? Can't have it both ways.

Arthur

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

I assume then you're completely fine paying retail for graded cards that are actually altered/authentic. No? Can't have it both ways.

Arthur

I'm not fine with paying retail for any card.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

ahhhhh...that "service!" I wonder if this is part of their business model...to undercharge for consignments in lieu of the back end where shill bidding and the moser connection more than make up the difference.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

ahhhhh...that "service!" I wonder if this is part of their business model...to undercharge for consignments in lieu of the back end where shill bidding and the moser connection more than make up the difference.

I'd imagine they get heavily reduced rates through eBay, but who knows.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

This has nothing to do PWCC, and it should be obvious not defending them (I've already stated that they and Gary Moser should go under and get any legal prosecution they are due). However, many collectors who sell their own stuff on eBay don't understand that many collectors don't enjoy, or have the time, to do their own eBay auctions. They are willing to pay the extra percentage for the ability to send their stuff to someone else sell for them.

It's like you may enjoy painting your kitchen walls, but others don't and prefer to pay someone else to do it-- and they also may feel the professional will do a better job.

When someone says "Why don't they sell it themselves," the same can be said when you pay someone to paint your kitchen or mow your law.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by drcy

This has nothing to do PWCC, and obviously not defending them (I've already stated that they and Gary Moser should go under). However, many collectors who sell their own stuff on eBay don't understand that many collectors don't enjoy, or have the time, to do their own eBay auctions. They are willing to pay the extra percentage for the ability to send their stuff to someone else sell for them.

Honestly, selling on eBay sucks. I appreciate that some collectors do not regularly sell items, but I do. I would prefer to send it to someone who can reliably sell my items than spend my time doing it myself. I am not going to take time away from my life because of this scandal. If someone wants to come up with a similar platform, fine, I will consider switching. However, right now, PWCC has no viable counterparts.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

right now, PWCC has no viable counterparts.

Yeah, actually, there are. COMC, Probstein, and any number of other eBay consignment sellers exist. I bet some of the sellers here would happily take consignments to sell on eBay. Even some AHs sell on eBay regularly. You don't have to do business with PWCC unless you want to.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Yeah, actually, there are. COMC, Probstein, and any number of other eBay consignment sellers exist. I bet some of the sellers here would happily take consignments to sell on eBay. Even some AHs sell on eBay regularly. You don't have to do business with PWCC unless you want to.

Does COMC do auctions? I thought they were just buy it nows? Probstein has more issues than PWCC. Does Greg Morris have the same sort of consignment portal?

I have sent consignments to maybe a dozen AH's. I currently have consignments with LOTG and HA. If I have a bunch of lower-end cards, PWCC is by far the easiest. Then again, I am always open to other recommendations.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Honestly, selling on eBay sucks. I appreciate that some collectors do not regularly sell items, but I do. I would prefer to send it to someone who can reliably sell my items than spend my time doing it myself. I am not going to take time away from my life because of this scandal. If someone wants to come up with a similar platform, fine, I will consider switching. However, right now, PWCC has no viable counterparts.

I won't do business with PWCC, but I agree with Jason. PWCC has a great model for collectors to sell their cards. It's really amazing what Brent built, unfortunately it seems like it was built on fraud.

[cubsguy1969]

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

Because whoever took those photos owns the rights to those photos and would have to get paid for their use, or grant permission for their use. And I imagine they aren't too eager to do that.

I work at a big newspaper and the rules for photo usage have gotten insane. Even star publicity photos, which ostensibly were taken for PUBLICITY, require permission for use. Otherwise the photographer wants paid.

I agree using the SGC photo is bad. That's just lazy. Someone not paying attention.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by cubsguy1969

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

Because whoever took those photos owns the rights to those photos and would have to get paid for their use, or grant permission for their use. And I imagine they aren't too eager to do that.

I work at a big newspaper and the rules for photo usage have gotten insane. Even star publicity photos, which ostensibly were taken for PUBLICITY, require permission for use. Otherwise the photographer wants paid.

I agree using the SGC photo is bad. That's just lazy. Someone not paying attention.

Since the items are newsworthy, wouldn't use of the photos fall under fair use?

[Jim65]

These guys will start turning on each other. Getting interviewed by the FBI and the prospect of jail time tends to do that.

[cubsguy1969]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Since the items are newsworthy, wouldn't use of the photos fall under fair use?

I'm pretty sure not. If that were the case, a newspaper photographer could go out, take a photo of a huge news event, post it on the newspaper's site and then anyone could grab it because the event was "newsworthy." Whoever took the photo owns the rights to it. Or the person who paid that person owns the rights. You could run it in your newspaper if you want, but that person could send you a hefty bill for using it. This stuff happens all the time now online. People grab photos from sites and use them for their own purposes. Photographers are coming after these people hard. Pay me! As they should. It's their work. You can't just take it.

[jimjim]

When my Dad calls me to ask me about the baseball card scandal, you know it has hit the main stream. He knows nothing about the industry or hobby. He read about it in a local newspaper.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Good article and I'm glad the issue is becoming a widespread news story - although it's actually an old, ongoing problem with new evidence.

One part of the article that was newsworthy to me was the following statement:

The scandal started after a pair of online collectors began identifying and documenting cards that were allegedly improperly modified. They’ve identified 316 such cards, retouched by nearly a dozen “card doctors,” which sold for a combined $1.4 million.

I'm curious who these alleged dozen doctors are? Only one was alleged in the article by name. (Although I'm very sure there's far more than a dozen involved).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Good article and I'm glad the issue is becoming a widespread news story - although it's actually an old, ongoing problem with new evidence.

One part of the article that was newsworthy to me was the following statement:

The scandal started after a pair of online collectors began identifying and documenting cards that were allegedly improperly modified. They’ve identified 316 such cards, retouched by nearly a dozen “card doctors,” which sold for a combined $1.4 million.

I'm curious who these alleged dozen doctors are? Only one was alleged in the article by name. (Although I'm very sure there's far more than a dozen involved).

I told Jacob there were many and that Gary was far from the only one. I didn't give a number and I didn't use names. Now he MAY be getting it from adding up all the modern trimmers accused on BO? There are certainly quite a few that I have seen.

[swarmee]

http://www.sportscardradio.com/
There's a whole slew of them that blowout guys have discovered in the past year. And if the FBI casts a wider net to include the PSA submission records of auctionhouses, it might uncover quite a few more. I'd like to see them subpeona the records of Dick Towle.

And the IRS should definitely be taking a harder look at these guys.

[cincyredlegs]

I wonder how many people defending pwcc or what is going on is actually alts of the criminals. We already know Bobby has one or two alts where he defends vcp. There is no logical reason how you could defend it.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by cincyredlegs

I wonder how many people defending pwcc or what is going on is actually alts of the criminals. We already know Bobby has one or two alts where he defends vcp. There is no logical reason how you could defend it.

If someone publicly posts that he still buys his cards from PWCC, I hope it doesn't surprise him when he turns to sell that others don't buy from him.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by swarmee

http://www.sportscardradio.com/
There's a whole slew of them that blowout guys have discovered in the past year. And if the FBI casts a wider net to include the PSA submission records of auctionhouses, it might uncover quite a few more. I'd like to see them subpeona the records of Dick Towle.

And the IRS should definitely be taking a harder look at these guys.

Interesting link. Some of the aliases made me chuckle. Thanks for laughs and I can assure you there are more than what was revealed on that website.