Anyone else feel the same way?

[timn1]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Not at all. I love cards. I'll always collect them and this will hopefully bring some of the prices down again so I can afford some better names again. I'm not in it for the money, just the cards. And mine are beaters, whether raw or graded. So my response to your question is no. I still love cards.

Describes me perfectly.

[AGuinness]

I'm curious if anyone who does feel the same way, that recent revelations have ruined things, could go deeper as to what has changed. I ask, in part, because while the revelations are dramatic, trimming, recoloring, etc. are not at all new; these types of scammers and bad actors have had a presence in the hobby for a long, long time.
The revelations are shocking and I am still frustrated that we have to deal with card doctors and this type of bad behavior. But perhaps what is even more frustrating is how PWCC has not seemed to lose much business despite the revelations. It's like a restaurant that people discover is serving rat meat instead of hamburgers, all while adding RoundUp and spitting on them before giving them to people. And yet customers still line up...
Anyway, I'm not going to let a few bad actors ruin my fun in the hobby. But my collecting goals are modest (to say the least) and my philosophy with buying any card is that I will make the purchase if I am ok with it losing all it's value and I can still enjoy it.

[AGuinness]

Not sure if a similar joke was made elsewhere, but I think a new sticker for slabbed cards is more than appropriate, indicating a card's provenance does not include a sale through a suspicious auction house/seller. It would be "Not Of PWCC Or Other Pernicious-Purveyors," or the acronym: No Poop. Who wouldn't want a slabbed card bearing the 'No Poop' sticker?!

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I'm curious if anyone who does feel the same way, that recent revelations have ruined things, could go deeper as to what has changed .

There will always be people who alter cards. That's not going away. I trusted PSA to catch it and they failed. PWCC bought cards that were later altered. They worked with Gary Moser. Brent shilled auctions. Bobby Binder of VCP knows the data he sells (Brent's sales prices) is a fraud. He uses alts on various forums to defend himself. I can go on and on. It's a mess and hard to believe they're not all working together somehow. I guess my confidence is shot. I'd rather collect raw and spend the extra money elsewhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

There will always be people who alter cards. That's not going away. I trusted PSA to catch it and they failed. PWCC bought cards that were later altered. They worked with Gary Moser. Brent shilled auctions. Bobby Binder of VCP knows the data he sells (Brent's sales prices) is a fraud. He uses alts on various forums to defend himself. I can go on and on. It's a mess and hard to believe they're not all working together somehow. I guess my confidence is shot. I'd rather collect raw and spend the extra money elsewhere.

One of the "detectives" at BO complained that the new VCP site makes it more difficult to use images there and evidently Bobby did not respond. Bobby also has not responded to questions about why, if as he says advertising revenue is insignificant to him in general and PWCC revenue even less so, why he continues to promote PWCC in light of all that's come to light. Perhaps these are oversights and Bobby will address them.

[mq711]

A lot less interest in the hobby but will continue to search Greg Morris Cards for raw set needs and upgrades.

[sportscardpete]

I haven't changed at all, just switching some things around. I don't collect anything high grade so it doesn't really change my decision making.

I will say that I kind of raise my eyebrows at the folks who have totally lost interest due to the scandal. Think we have it bad? You should look at art collecting, where fakes are more prominent and tougher to identify, and restorations are applauded!!

[1952boyntoncollector]

I think it frees a bunch of us up now. I dont care about $2000 card and am happy with PSA 2 cards etc. PSA means 'authentic' to me instead of a fake card. I also just look for hobby cards now.

If a card looks really nice, touched up or not i buy the card but not for the holder number. PSA A for years can sell for a PSA 1-3 range so now i am freed from paying bigger money as bigger money cards also had a chance to make a profit on but now i dont care about that due to whats going on. I just look for hobby cards now.

[Yankees1964]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One of the "detectives" at BO complained that the new VCP site makes it more difficult to use images there and evidently Bobby did not respond. Bobby also has not responded to questions about why, if as he says advertising revenue is insignificant to him in general and PWCC revenue even less so, why he continues to promote PWCC in light of all that's come to light. Perhaps these are oversights and Bobby will address them.

Interesting that after all these years the "new and improved site" launches now.

[SAllen2556]

I always figured there were mistakes made on graded cards, but I now believe the percentage is MUCH higher than the 1 or 2% I used to assume.

And to make it worse, I'm now questioning the cards I already own that are in PSA holders. This card is a PSA 4. I admit, I bought the 4 not the card. I was at the National, saw it and bought it before I really looked at it. Now I just don't know. It looks funny to me. And now I know I can't trust these guys to catch the most basic card alterations that I foolishly assumed they would pretty much never miss. That's a game changer for me.

So, yes, it has made me even more jaded.

I'm wondering if other people have graded cards that they now look at and wonder.....

IMG_1542a.jpg

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

I always figured there were mistakes made on graded cards, but I now believe the percentage is MUCH higher than the 1 or 2% I used to assume.

And to make it worse, I'm now questioning the cards I already own that are in PSA holders. This card is a PSA 4. I admit, I bought the 4 not the card. I was at the National, saw it and bought it before I really looked at it. Now I just don't know. It looks funny to me. And now I know I can't trust these guys to catch the most basic card alterations that I foolishly assumed they would pretty much never miss. That's a game changer for me.

So, yes, it has made me even more jaded.

I'm wondering if other people have graded cards that they now look at and wonder.....

Attachment 359651

This Mike Schmidt rookie card has been dipped in bleach and trimmed or I'm not Brent Mastro

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

There will always be people who alter cards. That's not going away. I trusted PSA to catch it and they failed. PWCC bought cards that were later altered. They worked with Gary Moser. Brent shilled auctions. Bobby Binder of VCP knows the data he sells (Brent's sales prices) is a fraud. He uses alts on various forums to defend himself. I can go on and on. It's a mess and hard to believe they're not all working together somehow. I guess my confidence is shot. I'd rather collect raw and spend the extra money elsewhere.

Totally agree that many players in the hobby seem to be "working" together.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

I'm curious if anyone who does feel the same way, that recent revelations have ruined things, could go deeper as to what has changed. I ask, in part, because while the revelations are dramatic, trimming, recoloring, etc. are not at all new; these types of scammers and bad actors have had a presence in the hobby for a long, long time.
The revelations are shocking and I am still frustrated that we have to deal with card doctors and this type of bad behavior. But perhaps what is even more frustrating is how PWCC has not seemed to lose much business despite the revelations. It's like a restaurant that people discover is serving rat meat instead of hamburgers, all while adding RoundUp and spitting on them before giving them to people. And yet customers still line up...
Anyway, I'm not going to let a few bad actors ruin my fun in the hobby. But my collecting goals are modest (to say the least) and my philosophy with buying any card is that I will make the purchase if I am ok with it losing all it's value and I can still enjoy it.

What's new for me is the PWCC business plan from the start. To shill bid, bleach and trim every card for the taking, re holster a sell for a huge profit.

I'm just not interested in a hobby that allows that bullshit for 15 years, sorry.