ethical question

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

How do they determine current market value? Do they include all the doctored cards which have inflated the price? Do they include all the shilled cards? Or do they just come up with their own market value?

People are still buying cards now, the market didnt just die. Obviously if there arguments over market value there can be lawsuits and experts brought in if all the time money and attorney fees are worth it to do it that way..

thus far there seems to be agreements as to market price because no lawsuits filed

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

People are still buying cards now, the market didnt just die. Obviously if there arguments over market value there can be lawsuits and experts brought in if all the time money and attorney fees are worth it to do it that way..

thus far there seems to be agreements as to market price because no lawsuits filed

Many of those defrauded are not even aware of it yet. Unless you're on BO or net54, you probably aren't aware of the scandal's massive scale. Assuming it ever hits the more mainstream media, there WILL be lawsuits.

These things don't happen overnight.... Give it some time, for gosh sake!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Many of those defrauded are not even aware of it yet. Unless you're on BO or net54, you probably aren't aware of the scandal's massive scale. Assuming it ever hits the more mainstream media, there WILL be lawsuits.

These things don't happen overnight.... Give it some time, for gosh sake!

i was just answering the question about how the heck could anyone agree on a market price now.

I do think many that buy 5k cards and over have a friend or two that may know the larger picture even if they dont. So yeah some guy that bought a 200 dollar card may not know about it for 10 years but the 1952 Topps Rutherford that sold for 12k or whatever...no way he doesnt know that . Card community is pretty small, the PSA set registry community even smaller, people that buy 10k+ cards even smaller than that.

does everyone know..of course not, but enough time has elapsed that for 5k or more cards if PSA had said we not paying anyone, a lawsuit would of been filed by now. Its obvious, that enough people are being satisfied by now on this first wave that a market price agreement has been agreed too for now..

[Johnny630]

This is what’s going to happen......... a whole lot of nothing burger

Just has Tom Hanks Said there is no crying in baseball
There is no ethics in the sports card industry

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

This is what’s going to happen......... a whole lot of nothing burger

Just has Tom Hanks Said there is no crying in baseball
There is no ethics in the sports card industry

I think there will be something burger...

Not sure what, and not expecting "In & Out" or "Shake Shack" quality. Perhaps more like White Castle... but something positive has to emerge from this mess.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I think there will be something burger...

Not sure what, and not expecting "In & Out" or "Shake Shack" quality. Perhaps more like White Castle... but something positive has to emerge from this mess.

To me it all has to come down to the grading company PSA....they’re supposed to be the authority.....what good is their services if they can’t stop this.....
If people lose their faith in PSA our Industry will be DONE. This is why I believe nothing will happen except business as usual for PSA meaning no reason why this happened no paying back no addressing it publicly period. To many people have millions of dollars tied up in this industry they don’t want it to fall I don’t want it to fail.

Does PSA have a good excuse or Reason why this happened?
The more they deny and keep hush the worse it’s gonna be for PSA in the long run......

I still think Nothing is Going to a Change .....I feel like at PSA, they’re saying, or at least telling their share holders stay calm keep hush....there are too many suckers whom are addicted to our registry and grading brand.... we are making Everyone Tons of Money on our Brand/slabbed cards/they need us... The dealers, Auction Houses, Collectors, Flippers are profiting......they need us more then we need them....they won’t bite the hand that feeds them.
Keep Quiet we will get through this....our brand is strong.

[barrysloate]

I think something will happen, and I predict PSA will acknowledge that they have a responsibility to fix this. Where the problem may lie is PSA might feel it only needs a few tweaks to make it all right again. So their admission might fall quite a bit short.

But this is too massive for them to pretend nothing happened. Maybe they'll offer all aggrieved parties a Domino's pizza with two free toppings. Would that work for everybody?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

To me it all has to come down to the grading company PSA....they’re supposed to be the authority.....what good is their services if they can’t stop this.....
If people lose their faith in PSA our Industry will be DONE. This is why I believe nothing will happen except business as usual for PSA meaning no reason why this happened no paying back no addressing it publicly period. To many people have millions of dollars tied up in this industry they don’t want it to fall I don’t want it to fail.

Does PSA have a good excuse or Reason why this happened?
The more they deny and keep hush the worse it’s gonna be for PSA in the long run......

I still think Nothing is Going to a Change .....I feel like at PSA, they’re saying, or at least telling their share holders stay calm keep hush....there are too many suckers whom are addicted to our registry and grading brand.... we are making Everyone Tons of Money on our Brand/slabbed cards/they need us... The dealers, Auction Houses, Collectors, Flippers are profiting......they need us more then we need them....they won’t bite the hand that feeds them.
Keep Quiet we will get through this....our brand is strong.

Agree with all the above, except for the part highlighted in bold italics...

I do not think the hobby is anywhere near "done" if PSA were to go down. It was a great hobby before PSA ever existed, and it could continue to be. Very quickly, something else would come along to inevitably replace them. If there are to be any "learnings" from this scandal, then the new entity will be something improved and enhanced.

The vast majority of cards in PSA Holders wouldn't be deemed bad. Some current 8s, 9s and 10s would lose some value, and deservedly so. The grading game is very close to a monopoly right now, and perhaps a new player or two would be a good thing for the majority of collectors.

That said... you're probably right. Big money and corrupt influences will dictate that nothing changes.

[Fred]

If the card is raw and there's an issue, then yes, a refund by the seller would be in order.

If the card is graded then it should be on the TPG to take care of business.

IMO, most collectors will bid based on the grade and the fact that the TPG has opined the card has not been altered. That said, the bidder better understand the differences between a reputable and fly by night TPG.

It's pretty sad to see this hobby being "de-graded" as rapidly as it has in the past few years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Agree with all the above, except for the part highlighted in bold italics...

I do not think the hobby is anywhere near "done" if PSA were to go down. It was a great hobby before PSA ever existed, and it could continue to be. Very quickly, something else would come along to inevitably replace them. If there are to be any "learnings" from this scandal, then the new entity will be something improved and enhanced.

The vast majority of cards in PSA Holders wouldn't be deemed bad. Some current 8s, 9s and 10s would lose some value, and deservedly so. The grading game is very close to a monopoly right now, and perhaps a new player or two would be a good thing for the majority of collectors.

That said... you're probably right. Big money and corrupt influences will dictate that nothing changes.

There's always SGC, or is it now S_C?