Opinions Wanted re: Mickey Mantle Program

[steve B]

One day is a really short time to print and staple together enough programs for a game.

The stapling is probably the biggest roadblock. We did a catalog for MIT once that was roughly program size, maybe a bit thicker, but the stapling machine would do pretty much anything in its thickness range at the same speed.
That was 25,000 course catalogs, and it took a week if I remember it right.(and that in 1981)

Could a big place have done a next day turnaround of say 10,000 programs with lineups stapled in? Probably, and the Yankees were probably a big enough customer that it was routine. But even 5K printed and assembled in a day is very fast.

Do the programs, especially the scorecard part have any notes like a number followed by something like 5M or 10M? That's usually the job number and quantity printed.

The program part would have been ready to go, and the lineup and assembly done later. I think it's possible that a change was made so maybe some were the lineup expected earlier, and then the last part of the order had something more like the actual lineup. Possible, but I don't know precisely how they were produced.
Assuming it was done in a rush, the one that's mostly incorrect and has mantles name spelled wrong seems the most likely to be the one.

[bigfanNY]

I agree that printed lineups take more than a couple hours. The first game in NYC for the Yankees that season was an exhibition game vs Brooklyn. The lineup for that game has Markland in the lineup. It makes sense that the next game (opening day) would use the same lineup. And the lineup with Mantle would be printed for the game after opening day. Markland was not included on the official opening day yankee roster. And according to Markland himself he was informed just before opening day that he was being sent down. That combined with the Markland program sold for big money was accompanied by a ticket for opening day from the same original owner.
To be open I have a program with the Markland lineup that I do consider a 1951 opening day program.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

While I really have no idea about the speed of type setting, the 1956 Yankee highlight film shows the stadium staff preparing for a game day. One segment of film talks about and shows a printing press inside the stadium preparing that days scorecards/program. It gives the appearance of preparing the scorecard on a daily basis? Doak Ewing of Rare Sports Films sells DVds of that highlight film. I have the old VHS version.

[nolemmings]

Al, I am following your logic and don’t disagree with your findings, but am wondering where it leaves you. Caveat: I am not a program collector and have not researched this in any great detail, but it seems to me as if the lineups for all three scorecards could have been printed at the same time, inserted and then incorrectly distributed at the wrong games. In other words, Al may be right about what was intended to be Mantle’s first game scorecard, but others were used that night instead or as well.

Have any programs where the printed lineups match the April 17 box score been scored? The one Al shows is unscored, as is the other he auctioned awhile back. So too for the same scorecard lineup in an REA auction from 2015. Is it possible that the opening day lineups were printed and stapled but incorrectly assigned for distribution in game 3—the rainout? If so where does that leave things–an opening day program/scorecard that was never or only partially distributed? [BTW, I do not know at what time the rainout was called–before or after people showed up at the ballpark and may have bought their programs]

Both of the other two scorecards attributed to Mantle’s debut were scored, and apparently correctly, although of course these days there is always the possibility the pencil marks were added well after the fact. Still, there appears some anecdotal evidence, such as the sale of an Opening Day game ticket that allegedly accompanied one of the programs, that suggests these other lineup cards were distributed on April 17.

Finally, it makes sense to me that the scorecards for all three games would be printed at the same time where possible, as opposed to rushing for lineup info between games (especially if the opponent did not go out of its way to cooperate). The opening series of the season would present a great opportunity to do this, although it may have created confusion as well.

So, there you have it–clear as mud. My two cents.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Finally, it makes sense to me that the scorecards for all three games would be printed at the same time where possible, as opposed to rushing for lineup info between games (especially if the opponent did not go out of its way to cooperate).

The bold part of the quote baffles me. I guess it's because this kind of information is easily and instantaneously available to all of the clubs these days.

I know it was a different time back then, but I'm just not able to figure out a reason why a club wouldn't cooperate, even if only so the other team will reciprocate at some point in the future if needed.

[nolemmings]

I'm sorry that you're baffled. Let me make it easy--I will delete that from my post, as it added very little in the first instance.

My point was that it would be preferable to get the needed info as soon as possible, and to print three days of lineups if you can. That implies some sense of cooperation as its basis, so I was not implying anything sinister. Time was short in between games as far as printing deadlines go, and I foolishly considered a scenario where the opposing manager, after a long, hard-fought game, did not hurry or skip his shower to make sure that the other team's local press or public relations team got his lineup card for the following day as soon as possible. Somehow I can see that not being a priority in certain situations.
But I will defer to others with knowledge of how things were back then.

[nolemmings]

I apologize if that last post came across as flippant. I really am curious to know more about how these scorecards were printed, and thought more forum members would have shared insight.

I do not recall pre-printed lineups showing up in the Twins'scorecards/programs at games I attended beginning mid-1960's, and it seems most other teams I've seen from that era lack them also, although again I have spent almost no time studying the matter. It would be a nice feature unless it proved to be too difficult to continue, so I am wondering when the practice waned. Then again, apparently the Cardinals ran them until 1982, so it was not overly difficult. I saw this in an article found after 10 minutes of online research:

"Starting lineups appeared in Cardinals scorecards through the 1982 season, facilitated by the luxury of having a printing press on-site at both Busch Stadium and Sportsman’s Park. The drill for getting lineup information from the manager’s office onto the scorecard was, literally, an overnight mission. Shortly after the end of a game, a member of the Cardinals’ PR staff visited the home and visitors clubhouses to retrieve each manager’s probable starting lineup for the next day’s game. The information was whisked off to the press room – located behind the right-field corner at Busch and under the first-base stands at Sportsman’s – and delivered to a two-man team of union printers that had just clocked in at the ballpark. Setting type by hand, the pressmen cranked up the old press and ran scorecards past dawn, typically 10,000 to 15,000 per game.

Kip Ingle, a member of the club’s media relations staff through the 1980s, remembers the drill in its twilight years.“Whitey (Herzog) was great, he always had his lineup ready,” Ingle recalled.“The visitors clubhouse could be another story. One manager, in particular, always seemed to be more occupied with visitors, and you’d be trying to pull the lineup out of his back pocket while hewas entertaining guests."
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl...rd_history.pdf