T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



…………….. The 150 Series backs associated with the Elite 11 subjects ……………..



Hey Ron

In your scans on Post #754 you included the SOVEREIGN 150 cards, which reminded me that the SOVEREIGN 150 cards of the Elite 11 appear to be much more difficult
to find than their PIEDMONT or SWEET CAPORAL counterparts.
I'm curious if your experience finding the SOVEREIGN 150 cards of the Elite 11 subjects was similar to mine ?


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TED Z
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[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Ron

In your scans on Post #754 you included the SOVEREIGN 150 cards, which reminded me that the SOVEREIGN 150 cards of the Elite 11 appear to be much more difficult
to find than their PIEDMONT or SWEET CAPORAL counterparts.
I'm curious if your experience finding the SOVEREIGN 150 cards of the Elite 11 subjects was similar to mine ?

TED Z
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Hi Ted, I found the Sovereign 150 Elite 11 cards to be more difficult than many of the other Sovereign 150’s. They are much more difficult than the Piedmont 150’s and Sweet Caporal 150’s, but very similar to the EPDG’s as far as difficulty. Dahlen Sovereign 150 seemed to be the most difficult for me which is interesting because Dahlen EPDG is the most difficult EPDG Elite 11. I also feel that Elite 11 Hindu’s are more common than other Brown Hindu’s.

Since we are talking about Sovereign’s and there’s another post about Sovereign’s and the original 150, which I don’t believe there to be any exact numbers, I figured I’d share my Sovereign 150 difficulty breakdown list. It’s in 4 sections from most difficult to easiest. Obviously, this is only my opinion.

These cards are from a group of 150 only cards. No 350 backs were made with any back. These are the most difficult Sovereign 150’s. (11/150)
Ames, Red (Hands At Chest)
Brown, George (Chicago)
Brown, Mordecai (Cubs On Shirt)
Burch, AL (Batting)
Donlin, Mike (Fielding)
Doyle, Larry (Throwing)
Evers, Johnny (Cubs On Shirt - Blue Sky)
Pattee, Harry
Pelty, Barney (Horizontal)
Powers, Mike
Reulbach, Ed (Glove Showing)

These cards are from the Elite 11 card group. These are cards that can only be found with a Sovereign 150 and not Sovereign 350 back. These are the second most difficult Sovereign 150’s.(10/150)
Dahlen, Bill (Boston)
Ewing, Bob
Ganley, Bob
Jones, Tom
Karger, Ed
Lindaman, Vive
Mullin, George (Throwing)
Schaefer, Germany (Detroit)
Shaw, Al
Spencer, Tubby

These are cards that can only be found with a Sovereign 150 and not Sovereign 350 back. These are the third most difficult Sovereign 150’s. (60/150)
Alperman, Whitey
Ball, Neal (New York)
Bates, Johnny
Beaumont, Ginger
Bergen, Bill (Batting)
Bowerman, Frank
Bradley, Bill (Portrait)
Bransfield, Kitty
Chance, Frank (Portrait - Red)
Chase, Hal (Portrait - Pink)
Chase, Hal (White Cap)
Chesbro, Jack
Clarke, Fred (Portrait)
Clarke, J.J.
Cobb, Ty (Portrait - Green)
Conroy, Wid (Fielding)
Covaleski, Harry
Crandall, Doc (Portrait No Cap)
Davis, George
Davis, Harry (H. Davis On Front)
Delehanty, Jim
Doolin, Mickey
Durham, Bull
Evers, Johnny (Portrait)
Gibson, George
Gilbert, Billy
Hahn, Ed
Hemphill, Charlie
Herzog, Buck (New York)
Hinchman, Bill
Jordan, Tim (Portrait)
Keeler, Willie (Portrait)
Killian, Ed (Hands At Chest)
Konetchy, Ed (Glove Above Head)
Lajoie, Nap (Throwing)
Lake, Joe (New York)
Leach, Tommy (Portrait)
Lobert, Hans
Lumley, Harry
Magee, Sherry (Portrait)
Marquard, Rube (Hands At Side)
Mathewson, Christy (White Cap)
McIntyre, Harry (Brooklyn)
McQuillan, George (Ball In Hand)
Overall, Orval (Portrait)
Owen, Frank
Pastorius, Jim
Powell, Jack
Ritchey, Claude
Rucker, Nap (Portrait)
Schlei, Admiral (Catching)
Schmidt, Boss (Throwing)
Schulte, Wildfire (Front View)
Spade, Bob
Steinfeldt, Harry (Portrait)
Tannehill, Lee (L. Tannehill On Front)
Tinker, Joe (Portrait)
Wagner, Heinie (Bat On Left Shoulder)
Wilhelm, Kaiser (Hands At Chest)
Williams, Jimmy

These are cards that can be found with a Sovereign 150 and Sovereign 350 back. These are the least difficult Sovereign 150’s. (69/150)
Abbaticchio, Ed (Brown Sleeves)
Ames, Red (Portrait)
Bell, George (Hands Above Head)
Bender, Chief (Portrait)
Birmingham, Joe
Bresnahan, Roger (Portrait)
Bridwell, Al (Portrait - No Cap)
Brown, Mordecai (Portrait)
Camnitz, Howie (Arms Folded)
Cicotte, Ed
Clarke, Fred (Batting)
Cobb, Ty (Bat On Shoulder)
Criger, Lou
Criss, Dode
Devlin, Art
Donlin, Mike (Seated)
Donohue, Jiggs
Donovan, Wild Bill (Portrait)
Dooin, Red
Dougherty, Patsy (Portrait)
Elberfeld, Kid (Portrait - New York)
Ferris, Hobe
Flick, Elmer
Goode, Wilbur
Griffith, Clark (Portrait)
Isbell, Frank
Jacklitsch, Fred
Johnson, Walter (Portrait)
Jones, Fielder (Hands At Hips)
Jones, Fielder (Portrait)
Joss, Addie (Portrait)
Keeler, Willie (With Bat)
Kleinow, Red (New York - With Bat)
Kling, Johnny
Lajoie, Nap (Portrait)
Leifield, Lefty (Pitching)
Liebhardt, Glenn
Manning, Rube (Batting)
Mathewson, Christy (Portrait)
McGraw, John (Finger In Air)
McGraw, John (Portrait - No Cap)
Merkle, Fred (Portrait)
Murphy, Danny (Throwing)
Nicholls, Simon (Hands On Knees)
Niles, Harry
Oldring, Rube (Fielding)
O'Leary, Charley (Portrait)
Parent, Fred
Seymour, Cy (Batting)
Sheckard, Jimmy (No Glove Showing)
Shipke, Bill
Smith, Frank (F. Smith)
Stahl, Jake (No Glove Shows)
Stone, George
Stovall, George (Portrait)
Sullivan, Billy
Tenney, Fred
Tinker, Joe (Hands On Knees)
Turner, Terry
Waddell, Rube (Portrait)
Waddell, Rube (Throwing)
Wallace, Bobby
Walsh, Ed
Weimer, Jake
White, Doc (Portrait)
Willis, Vic (Portrait)
Wiltse, Hooks (Portrait - No Cap)
Young, Cy (Bare Hand)
Young, Cy (Portrait)

[t206kid]

Ron, this is really great work. I strongly agree with the categories, although I think the top group is far more difficult than the Elite 11 group.

While there are a couple outliers from the Sovereign 150 and 350 list (Cobb bat on, Lajoie, Jones standing, Tenney, Criger, Clarke batting to name a few)...this is the best way to break things down imo.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's


Ron

Thanks for sharing your Sovereign 150 difficulty breakdown information.

When I put together my all - SOVEREIGN set (circa 2007), most of my experience finding the SOVEREIGN 150 cards mirrors your list. The 150-only subjects
were somewhat tougher than the Elite 11 (with SOVEREIGN 150 backs). Especially the Schulte (front view) card. I think he was the last card which completed
my set.
As you probably know, I consider this Schulte card residing in the 150-only group. My theory is.....American Litho replaced Wagner with Schulte to fill out the
vacant slot on the printing plates. Schulte is definitely a short-print with respect to SOVEREIGN 150 cards.


150-only Series subjects





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TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



…………….. The 150 Series backs associated with the Elite 11 subjects ……………..

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

…...Sovereign 150 seemed to be the most difficult for me which is interesting because Dahlen EPDG is the most difficult EPDG Elite 11......

Ron

As you well know, Dahlen (Boston) and Spencer are without a doubt the most difficult to find of the Elite 11 group. I post this following timeline of the transitional status
of these 10 players, which was approximately concurrent with American Lithographic's 350 Series start-up. Of which the PIEDMONT 350 backs were printed first. And, it
is my understanding that the EPDG print runs instantly followed.


Bill Dahlen................ Oct 27, 1909....signed by Brooklyn [this may explain why Dahlen (Boston) was short-printed].

Bob Ewing................ Jan 10, 1910....traded tp the Phillies

Bob Ganley............... May 18, 1909....traded to Philadelphia A's

Tom Jones................ Aug 20, 1909....traded to Detroit

Ed Karger................. June 9, 1909.....sold to St. Paul Saints (American Association)
.............................. July 26, 1909....traded to Boston (AL)

Vive Lindaman.......... July 7, 1909....Major League career ends

Carl Lundgren........... Apr 23, 1909....Major League career ends

Germany Schaefer..... Aug 13, 1909....traded to Washington

Al Shaw................... 1910....played with Wichita Jobbers (Western League)

Tubby Spencer.......... Circa July 1909....after catching 28 games with Boston, he quit them for the season [this may explain why Spencer was short-printed].
.............................. In 1910 he played for the St. Paul Saints (American Association).


TED Z
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