New too Vintage...should I buy raw?

[steve B]

Certain cards do get faked, and have in the past. Most of the older ones are pretty easy to spot, and a lot of the newer ones are just printed on a home printer so they look "different". What was faked were usually the hot, high demand cards. there are a couple "sportscard counterfeit detector" books that cover almost all of those done in the late 80's/early 90's

What I'd recommend is buying a batch of cards in about mid grade that's mostly commons. Those will give you a good idea of what a real unaltered card should look and feel like. As usual, no guarantee you won't get an altered card in there, but a whole batch of altered commons would be pretty unusual - the main exception would be 71 Topps, where some people colored edge damage with a marker. I have seen batches of 1-200 of those that were all colored in. Usually it bleeds onto the edge, so a photo of the side of the stack usually makes it obvious.

[lowpopper]

Check out ROOKIE-PARADE. A large percentage of my
inventory is HIGH GRADE vintage raw. Thousands of
customers. 100% positive feedback.


I hear good things about Greg Morris auctions too
regarding nice vintage raw cards.

[jared6180]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

Check out ROOKIE-PARADE. A large percentage of my
inventory is HIGH GRADE vintage raw. Thousands of
customers. 100% positive feedback.


I hear good things about Greg Morris auctions too
regarding nice vintage raw cards.

My question is that if you are in possession of cards like this why not grade them?

[wdwfan]

I buy raw. It's all I buy. I look for mid grade cards.

[wdwfan]

I'd never grade a card no matter the condition. Why do I want to pay someone to tell me the condition my card is in when I can do the same for free.

I look for Ex to Ex-Mt at minimum and NM mainly when it comes to vintage. But it's hard finding non-graded examples in the higher grade. But I just don't want to deal in it at all.

Originally Posted by jared6180

My question is that if you are in possession of cards like this why not grade them?

[mferronibc]

But what I don’t understand is how are you determining the real condition of a raw card by looking at a pic on EBay before buying? Don’t you ever buy one then receive it and be like wow that looks a lot worse than the pic?! To me no matter how flawed the grading system is at least to some degree I know what I’m getting. I can certainly understand buying raw more in the old days of card shops or at a show cause you see the card up close.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by mferronibc

But what I don’t understand is how are you determining the real condition of a raw card by looking at a pic on EBay before buying? Don’t you ever buy one then receive it and be like wow that looks a lot worse than the pic?! To me no matter how flawed the grading system is at least to some degree I know what I’m getting. I can certainly understand buying raw more in the old days of card shops or at a show cause you see the card up close.

I'm most interested in creases/wrinkles, so zoom in and make sure its crease free. If the description is poor (and theres alot of that) I'll send a message.

But more than that is, you're protected, if you don't like it or it measures short you can get your $$ back.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[wdwfan]

This right here. Although I agree with some that condition is on a per seller basis. Like I just bought a couple of cards from a buyer on here. He said they were Ex+. But both came with creases. I didn't get a response when I questioned. Thought about asking for a return, but since I didn't get a response, I didn't figure I'd get a response to the return request either. It was a purchase by the way.

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

I'm most interested in creases/wrinkles, so zoom in and make sure its crease free. If the description is poor (and theres alot of that) I'll send a message.

But more than that is, you're protected, if you don't like it or it measures short you can get your $$ back.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[OlderTheBetter]

Originally Posted by mferronibc

But what I don’t understand is how are you determining the real condition of a raw card by looking at a pic on EBay before buying? Don’t you ever buy one then receive it and be like wow that looks a lot worse than the pic?! To me no matter how flawed the grading system is at least to some degree I know what I’m getting. I can certainly understand buying raw more in the old days of card shops or at a show cause you see the card up close.

The answer to this one has always been obvious to me so I don't buy raw cards that cost more than $20 if I can't inspect it up close.

Occasionally I get a bad apple that was graded correctly but has some flaw that I didn't see in the online pics. But usually that is my fault for not inspecting more closely. Sonetimes not though -- I've received some cards that had edge damage that was not clear in the online pic. There are a lot of shady card sellers online so buying graded and then crackout has always worked best for me.

[OlderTheBetter]

Originally Posted by steve B

Certain cards do get faked, and have in the past. Most of the older ones are pretty easy to spot, and a lot of the newer ones are just printed on a home printer so they look "different". What was faked were usually the hot, high demand cards. there are a couple "sportscard counterfeit detector" books that cover almost all of those done in the late 80's/early 90's.

What is most scary to me is the very high quality of the more recent reprints. The technology is making it harder every day to spot these without a jewelers loupe and 10x magnification. The size is right -- the colors are right -- gloss perfect. They look fantastic until you observe the card back.

The back is where you can see more. Easier to copy a card front than back IMHO; getting the back's printing and colors right is no easy feat. Usually it's the ink color that is wrong but sometimes even the color of the card stock is just not right. Very scary stuff though. I can see a day in the future where 1960s Topps cards will be counterfeited so well that only the technology of the graders will detect them. I have some reprints that are just outstanding replications. Showed a couple to my local LCS owner and he was shocked at how good they've become.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter

What is most scary to me is the very high quality of the more recent reprints. The technology is making it harder every day to spot these without a jewelers loupe and 10x magnification. The size is right -- the colors are right -- gloss perfect. They look fantastic until you observe the card back.

The back is where you can see more. Easier to copy a card front than back IMHO; getting the back's printing and colors right is no easy feat. Usually it's the ink color that is wrong but sometimes even the color of the card stock is just not right. Very scary stuff though. I can see a day in the future where 1960s Topps cards will be counterfeited so well that only the technology of the graders will detect them. I have some reprints that are just outstanding replications. Showed a couple to my local LCS owner and he was shocked at how good they've become.

It's already possible to reprint something exactly. But so far nobody has put in the effort.
The graders are not all that good, as you can see from how badly they miss alterations.

I'd love to see some of those really good fakes. Most of the ones I find out about are of fairly expensive cards, and I just don't have the budget to buy them.
I have one I bought a few years ago that was convincing viewed online, but not in person. (It was only $10)
It's possible there are good quality fakes coming out of China.

[mferronibc]

Has there ever actually been a reported case of a known fake sent to PSA that was graded out authentic?

[Rookiemonster]

The true consequences of this grading debacle is that Raw and Graded must be treated exactly the same. Both now run a equal chance of being altered or authentic. This is the precise reason grading is officially dead. When measured up like this I much rather have a raw card to inspect and own .


In time most will forget and move on as if nothing happened. But I never will no matter what new fangled idea that proves that it’s authentic. No matter how many certified stickers you put them on it.


Added bonus : no more extra cost to collecting .