Do Pre-War Collectors buy Modern Cards Featurin Game Used Items of Pre-War Players

[oldjudge]

I feel sorry for you, that you are so selfish and self centered that you would rather have a meaningless scrap of a once significant piece of memorabilia than keep the piece together so future generations could enjoy it in its’ original state. Thank goodness there aren’t too many people like you.

[Kenny Cole]

I have zero interest in owning a swath of cloth from a uniform or a sliver of wood from a bat. Personally, I think it is a horrible thing for these companies to do. I understand the superficial appeal, and others may feel differently, but it is absolutely not for me.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I feel sorry for you, that you are so selfish and self centered that you would rather have a meaningless scrap of a once significant piece of memorabilia than keep the piece together so future generations could enjoy it in its’ original state. Thank goodness there aren’t too many people like you.

Ummm...there are a lot of people like him and the pieces being cut up are hardly one of a kind. In fact pre-war collectors are the vast minority.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I feel sorry for you, that you are so selfish and self centered that you would rather have a meaningless scrap of a once significant piece of memorabilia than keep the piece together so future generations could enjoy it in its’ original state. Thank goodness there aren’t too many people like you.

Oh boy, can I replace pious with sanctimonious and ass-hole ish from my previous post replying to you?

You feel sorry for me, for enjoying a piece of memorabilia and paper differently to you?
Good lord. How will the world survive.
Fortunately when you and I are both gone future generations will similarly have their chance to decide how to best enjoy this 'stuff', and neither of us will have any say in it.
I wouldn't have it any other way, however I have a feeling you would rather burn everything down than have people decide for themselves they enjoy it differently from you.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Oh boy, can I replace pious with sanctimonious and ass-hole ish from my previous post replying to you?

You feel sorry for me, for enjoying a piece of memorabilia and paper differently to you?
Good lord. How will the world survive.
Fortunately when you and I are both gone future generations will similarly have their chance to decide how to best enjoy this 'stuff', and neither of us will have any say in it.
I wouldn't have it any other way, however I have a feeling you would rather burn everything down than have people decide for themselves they enjoy it differently from you.

I agree. At the end of the day, these are inanimate objects that will outlive us all.

[seanofjapan]

I hate them.

Its not just the destruction of history, though I am generally in the "I'd rather the whole thing be preserved" camp.

For me the things are just tacky anachronisms. I don't feel any history when I look at them because the card they are housed in (which makes up the majority of the item) is a modern, glitzy piece of plastic that screams "modern" at you. The fact that they have a wood chip or tiny shred of clothing that may (or may not for all I know) have at one point been part of something that was used by Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb or somebody just gets totally lost in the shiny glare of the foil embossed plastic they put these things in. When I hold one or look at one, I don't feel like I'm looking at history, I feel like I am looking at something extremely modern (which I am, memorabilia cards obviously didn't exist until 20 years ago).

I contrast that with the feeling I get when I have an old tobacco card in my hand. When I look at one of those, I feel like I am looking at history. This is the actual thing that someone had 100 years ago, in the same form that they had it. It doesn't have foil or faux vintage graphics stamped on it. Its real. I like it.

I should note that I don't feel the same about memorabilia cards of contemporary players. They aren't anachronisms with them - this is how some cards of players in this day and age are made and it feels quite natural. It also helps that you don't have the same preservation issues to worry about since they can easily create game used stuff for them.

100 years from now, these cards aren't going to be appreciated as anything but pieces of early 21st century ephemera, regardless of what era the player depicted actually played in. If I want a piece of Ruth or Cobb history I'll spend money on a period card of them from their playing days. Even though they may never have touched the card in person, it is a way closer connection to the time in which they played than a wood chip in a shiny piece of plastic is.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

I hate them.

...............
For me the things are just tacky anachronisms. I don't feel any history when I look at them because the card they are housed in (which makes up the majority of the item) is a modern, glitzy piece of plastic that screams "modern" at you.

Plastic? Screams modern?

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Plastic? Screams modern?

Sorry, but yeah, that screams "modern" at me. Anachronisms that I can't get around:

1) The shiny glare. Old cardboard doesn't reflect light that way.
2) The SP logo looks distinctly modern. It has a slight art deco feel to it, but that style didn't yet exist during Jackson's playing days.
3) The marbled grey background looks like a kitchen countertop in a contemporary suburban home. Its not a motif I think anyone associated with baseball, or even used, in the dead ball era.
4) The term "Legendary Cuts" is obviously modern hobby-speak, as is "Legendary Debut Bat Cards".
5) The "TM" mark is not something you see on the front of old cards.
6) The White Sox logo is contemporary, not the one used in Jackson's time.
7) Hard to tell form the photo, but I'm guessing the wood chip is in fact behind a plastic window?

And of course you also have the fact that the very idea of shredding bats to put wood chips into cards is a modern concept that nobody did back in Jackson's day.

So yeah, I'm sorry but I don't like that card, even though it does have a very nice photo of Jackson on it.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Sorry, but yeah, that screams "modern" at me. Anachronisms that I can't get around:

1) The shiny glare. Old cardboard doesn't reflect light that way.
2) The SP logo looks distinctly modern. It has a slight art deco feel to it, but that style didn't yet exist during Jackson's playing days.
3) The marbled grey background looks like a kitchen countertop in a contemporary suburban home. Its not a motif I think anyone associated with baseball, or even used, in the dead ball era.
4) The term "Legendary Cuts" is obviously modern hobby-speak, as is "Legendary Debut Bat Cards".
5) The "TM" mark is not something you see on the front of old cards.
6) The White Sox logo is contemporary, not the one used in Jackson's time.
7) Hard to tell form the photo, but I'm guessing the wood chip is in fact behind a plastic window?

And of course you also have the fact that the very idea of shredding bats to put wood chips into cards is a modern concept that nobody did back in Jackson's day.

So yeah, I'm sorry but I don't like that card, even though it does have a very nice photo of Jackson on it.

OK, you broke it down bit by bit so I guess I understand your thinking, however I'd suggest the aesthetic when viewed as a whole has a throwback vintage look and not at all modern. But that's fine.
Wood slice is NOT behind any plastic, none of the memorabilia cards I own are sleeved behind anything...

I find the thinking interesting on the topic, I guess I've certainly stuck and offered far more than 2 cents worth.
I wonder if the same people thinking desecration and destruction hated and still loathe the 60's action of hot-rodding...taking a perfectly good 34' Ford and cutting down its roofline, messing with fenders, cutting and changing etc?
Similarly the current love affair with resto-modding must be equally challenging to one's need to keep all classic things in their original form?

How about going into a historically period perfect home and ripping out a functioning and as designed kitchen and replacing it with something modern and sleek and chic? Bathroom too, heavenly days. Talk about destruction!!

But lets keep it in our wheelhouse.
Was this an act of abhorent destruction, or merely the need and desire of the owner to own and make appropriate to their desire? Is it ok because the owner performed the act so long ago, it was somehow less distressing and destructive?
Cut down from an advertising sheet:


Or how about this piece.....the auto I promise has not resided in this card since inception. Cut auto's ok even if they destroy the integrity of their original housing? What if there was text immediately before the auto giving context and history to it's penning...?


I'm going to guess most don't feel the same about signatures. How come?
This attitude that the jersey/bat have been destroyed, as if nothing remains, is patently untrue. It exists in miniatures to be sure.

[Stampsfan]

No

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I agree. At the end of the day, these are inanimate objects that will outlive us all.

And because they are organic (paper, cloth, wood) they will eventually decay. Metal artifacts are a little different, but sports - since the days of the gladiator - don't have a lot of game used metal memorabilia, so I think that's out of scope here.

So the question is, how best to enjoy game used items while they do exist? It's obvious some like to own pieces of these artifacts, while others prefer the concept that they are being preserved somewhere, intact.

I fall back on one of my fundamental principles: If you own something, you own it. So if you want to cut it into pieces, it's your right, and whatever anyone else thinks is not at all relevant.

[Ronnie73]

I don't personally search out these types of cards except for the Topps 2002 Mini's such as Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb. The only reason is because I'm a T206 guy and there are I think 6 reprints with the relics from that set. Otherwise, I'm against destroying certain history but the owner of that history has the ability to do whatever they want with it. As bad as it may seem to many, cutting a jersey into 500 pieces may be the only thing stopping this hobby from dying out. New collectors seem to only care about the relics and autographs. It's also the only thing that's keeping Topps and others still in business. Times have changed. Many of us were completely fine with that bonus stick of gum, sticker, or puzzle piece.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I feel sorry for you, that you are so selfish and self centered that you would rather have a meaningless scrap of a once significant piece of memorabilia than keep the piece together so future generations could enjoy it in its’ original state. Thank goodness there aren’t too many people like you.

Just a tad bit over the top, LOL.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Well, some of you guys are really passionate about these relic cards of the old time players. That's great. But neither side is right or wrong. Let's not fight over these cards just because of how someone feels about them. We are all entitled to our opinions without fear of being attacked.

That said, I have mixed feelings over the relic cards of prewar/vintage players. I like the newer players' relic cards but there are tons of game worn jerseys and bats of the modern players. I like the look of some of the prewar/vintage player cards, but not a lot of them. I hate when they put a Babe Ruth bat relic in a really shiny colorful modern looking card design. I like a lot of the old Timeless Treasures and Prime Cuts cards though.

I feel like if you buy something you are allowed to do with it as you please. If that means cutting it up and making a bunch of relic cards for the masses to enjoy, then you should be allowed to do so. Do I like it? Not very much, no. But they have the right to do it.