Do Pre-War Collectors buy Modern Cards Featurin Game Used Items of Pre-War Players

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Zero interest. Would guess 95% of them are bogus. Human nature being what it is, I'm sure numerous Babe Ruth jersey and pants swatches were located in a nearby Goodwill store.

If you are trying to find the corner of the hobby most likely rife with fraud you've no doubt found it. And there's ample competition.

Zero provenance to any of this crap. Could be anything. Piece of a Babe Ruth bat? Yeah sure it is.

And I don't want a miniscule slice of wood even it it was was they are saying it is.

Not quite sure what the distress is about? I mean, if were talking about more than one existing of anything of course.....

You want that bat whole so you can swing it one day? Think you'll get the chance? Or so that you can own it one day in your man-cave privacy...are you one of the very few who have the pockets to do so?
Or maybe it's so that you or others can visit it at a museum in the unlikely event it becomes owned by one? Because, you know, museums never sell off their stuff privately when they don't have the money because of low patronage...

What's all the wa wa-ing for?
Nothing else in life gets parsed in time for others to enjoy?
Autographs in books or other never get separated so that they can be framed alone for an owner to enjoy?
Sheets or folios from ancient Bibles haven't been unbound and given as gifts to other clergy members or sold to collectors to enjoy?
Audubon plates of birds aren't removed from original massive collations to be framed and hung on walls to be enjoyed by the many?
Massive 12 chair dining sets aren't broken up among family members so that more can enjoy their grace?
Cars aren't cannibalized so that 'original' parts can be put frankenstein style into other survivors to keep that new amalgam on the road?
How come sports cards that are never originally meant to be inked over but that collectors get signed haven't been 'ruined' and desecrated?
That can't be undone either.

Mate, it's only 'stuff'. Things that break down molecule by molecule over time just like our own bodies and should be enjoyed by as many people as possible. These memorabilia cards haven't been destroyed, or removed from existence the pieces used to create them, but have simply transformed their form so that many more people can be connected to them.
And often, in my opinion, the resultant cards become works of art that are every bit as special to behold:



Or maybe you just wanna sit around in you lounge room in a mothball smelling jersey Earl Averill wore just for kicks?

[packs]

Other than cutting something up for no reason, the problem with these cards is that you might just have swatches of someone's little league jersey. There is no provenance given for any of the material on the cards that the companies insert into products as chase cards, thereby selling the product on the pretense that a person has the opportunity to own a piece of......something.

In my opinion, if you're going to use the memorabilia as a pretense for selling merchandise, there should be some kind of history associated with what you're selling. Why can't consumers know where the material they're purchasing came from?

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by packs

Other than cutting something up for no reason, the problem with these cards is that you might just have swatches of someone's little league jersey. There is no provenance given for any of the material on the cards that the companies insert into products as chase cards, thereby selling the product on the pretense that a person has the opportunity to own a piece of......something.

In my opinion, if you're going to use the memorabilia as a pretense for selling merchandise, there should be some kind of history associated with what you're selling. Why can't consumers know where the material they're purchasing came from?

The companies mostly document the process closely.
If you want to search them out when the product is announced or being released, they will list the item of memorabilia and where and when they attained it eg. Auction or private purchase with photographs of that specific piece.
They take pictures of the item in their ownership and in preparation of 'dissection'.
They don't hide from the fact the item is rare, expensive, and therefore has assumed value for collectors to chase. It's not so much they make their money back from the sale of the memorabilia card itself (though they do over many subsequent releases in updated designed cards as you can squeeze ALOT of small numbered runs out of a bat or jersey) but because it encourages collectors to buy packs/boxes/crates of the stuff in search of these special pieces. In this way, the hype for the memorabilia cards funds the production and sale of the singles that cost nix to create and disseminate but brings good dollars in return.
And without this advent, I have a strong feeling collecting would never have had the resurgence it's experienced with new generations and with luck their subsequent interest in the older gear we enjoy.

The fear so many have about provenance is simply an excuse based on snobbery and the search for that excuse to smear the activity.
Collectors who don't like it - much like they don't like kids playing on their lawn - love to create the fearmongering to explain why they don't think it should be happening.
Others moan about slabbing as unholy.

It's all good in my opinion, it's a fun interesting hobby and should take whatever form it needs to maintain relevancy to ongoing collector interest.

[packs]

Can you post a link to the disclosures you're talking about? I have never seen them before. Also, I totally disagree with your assessment of modern collecting. These memorabilia cards hold almost no value 99% of the time. In fact, most people who buy boxes of modern cards where either an autograph OR a relic is guaranteed in the box are pretty bummed to get the relic as opposed to the autograph, which is what collectors actually chase.

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by packs

Can you post a link to the disclosures you're talking about? I have never seen them before. Also, I totally disagree with your assessment of modern collecting. These memorabilia cards hold almost no value 99% of the time. In fact, most people who buy boxes of modern cards where either an autograph OR a relic is guaranteed in the box are pretty bummed to get the relic as opposed to the autograph, which is what collectors actually chase.

Firstly, most 'collectors' aren't looking for what they can sell the card for.
That's the 'investors'. Or card shops whether brick or online looking to flip stuff.
Collectors are the kids and adults who love to put together stuff they enjoy looking at and discussing with eachother and friends. Waaaay more collectors than investors, but most people seem to focus on the flippers.

Here's one link talking about a very direct link taken by Leaf in a partnership with the Ruth Estate directly to bring product to market.
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...oxes-for-sale/

Another refers to Shoeless Joe bat used in 2001 UD product....I'd need to look further to try to find better info..
https://www.sportscollectorsdigest.c...f-joe-jackson/

If you're interested, contact UD, Topps and Leaf directly if you'd like further info...

[packs]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Firstly, most 'collectors' aren't looking for what they can sell the card for.
That's the 'investors'. Or card shops whether brick or online looking to flip stuff.
Collectors are the kids and adults who love to put together stuff they enjoy looking at and discussing with eachother and friends. Waaaay more collectors than investors, but most people seem to focus on the flippers.

Here's one link talking about a very direct link taken by Leaf in a partnership with the Ruth Estate directly to bring product to market.
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...oxes-for-sale/

Another refers to Shoeless Joe bat used in 2001 UD product....I'd need to look further to try to find better info..
https://www.sportscollectorsdigest.c...f-joe-jackson/

If you're interested, contact UD, Topps and Leaf directly if you'd like further info...

The Ruth deal was for his likeness. It does not mention purchasing any items from the family.

The Joe Jackson article simply states that they "procured a bat". From who? From where? It does not say, just as I suspected.

That's kind of the point. Where does the stuff come from and why is so out of the question to tell your consumers how you acquired the materials you're selling to them?

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by packs

The Ruth deal was for his likeness. It does not mention purchasing any items from the family.

The Joe Jackson article simply states that they "procured a bat". From who? From where? It does not say, just as I suspected.

That's kind of the point. Where does the stuff come from and why is so out of the question to tell your consumers how you acquired the materials you're selling to them?

If you could do your argument the solid and contact the companies I mention, ask them if they could supply just a couple examples of how and where they sourced their material, including whether they might share some pictures of the items in question, you might be pleased with the endeavour.

It's been years since I looked, but I can remember at least two big purchases announced and imaged in the media of card companies buying Ruth or Gehrig material for their products. One was for 400K+ if I remember correctly.

I can't see how it's fair to just presumptively make your claim without doing so.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Firstly, most 'collectors' aren't looking for what they can sell the card for.
That's the 'investors'. Or card shops whether brick or online looking to flip stuff.
Collectors are the kids and adults who love to put together stuff they enjoy looking at and discussing with eachother and friends. Waaaay more collectors than investors, but most people seem to focus on the flippers.

Here's one link talking about a very direct link taken by Leaf in a partnership with the Ruth Estate directly to bring product to market.
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...oxes-for-sale/

Another refers to Shoeless Joe bat used in 2001 UD product....I'd need to look further to try to find better info..
https://www.sportscollectorsdigest.c...f-joe-jackson/

If you're interested, contact UD, Topps and Leaf directly if you'd like further info...

That Ruth article is just to use his name and likeness, they didn't get items from the Ruth family to cut up and destroy.

If you do more research, you'll find articles about these companies buying fake jerseys and knowing they were fakes to put into cards.

Should we also cut up the declaration of independence or the Mona Lisa so tons of people can enjoy it and actually touch it, instead of just sitting in a museum behind some glass?

[Tripredacus]

Originally Posted by packs

In fact, most people who buy boxes of modern cards where either an autograph OR a relic is guaranteed in the box are pretty bummed to get the relic as opposed to the autograph, which is what collectors actually chase.

I think it has to do with how people store or display their collection. Personally I would prefer an autograph, or a relic from prior to 2005. The reasoning for this is specifically due to how thick the card is, as I like to put my cards into binders. I know other collectors that do not use binders and store their cards in one-touch holders. And for those types, card thickness is of no concern as long as a holder exists that the card can be put into.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Not quite sure what the distress is about?. These memorabilia cards haven't been destroyed,

Taking a Babe Ruth jersey and cutting it into 500 pieces isn't destroying?

Seriously?

[68Hawk]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Taking a Babe Ruth jersey and cutting it into 500 pieces isn't destroying?

Seriously?

I was pretty full in my description of why I didn't think it was destroyed.
So, tell me how it is?
What purpose are you keeping it in it's un-separated state for, that you are losing?

The jersey still exists, it's atoms haven't been d-nucleii'd, you can still see it, it just resides in hundreds of cards.
Now, if you're telling me the Jersey needs to come out on Yankee throwback night to be worn before adoring crowds, then yes that opportunity is destroyed.

But how else?

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Taking a Babe Ruth jersey and cutting it into 500 pieces isn't destroying?

Seriously?

I would submit that a pair of Babe Ruth pants made into a many dozen of attractive cards for collectors to enjoy is a sum that is greater than the whole. I wouldn't probably want to wear Babe Ruth pants even if I had the opportunity to do so.

[Leon]

That is an interesting way to look at it. But I have to go with the thought that cutting up super rare items is a shame. I get that people collect differently and can enjoy it how they want to. But to me, it is like restoring a piece of furniture or a survivor car. They will never be pure natural again. To each their own....

Originally Posted by bbcard1

I would submit that a pair of Babe Ruth pants made into a many dozen of attractive cards for collectors to enjoy is a sum that is greater than the whole. I wouldn't probably want to wear Babe Ruth pants even if I had the opportunity to do so.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by Leon

To each their own....

Not really my thing, but I agree with Leon here. I'm a bit surprised that some find this topic reason to insult each other. It's sad in this day and age that someone can't have an opposing point of view without being attacked.

[BabyRuth]

Maybe the companies could cut up old cards and insert them as swatch inserts into these lovely modern holographic beauties.

[Jim65]

I only collect the modern players, because in the end I don't really care if one of the hundreds of Jacob deGrom game worn jerseys has been cut up. If I like the card, I buy it.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 68Hawk

Not quite sure what the distress is about? I mean, if were talking about more than one existing of anything of course.....

You want that bat whole so you can swing it one day? Think you'll get the chance? Or so that you can own it one day in your man-cave privacy...are you one of the very few who have the pockets to do so?
Or maybe it's so that you or others can visit it at a museum in the unlikely event it becomes owned by one? Because, you know, museums never sell off their stuff privately when they don't have the money because of low patronage...

What's all the wa wa-ing for?
Nothing else in life gets parsed in time for others to enjoy?
Autographs in books or other never get separated so that they can be framed alone for an owner to enjoy?
Sheets or folios from ancient Bibles haven't been unbound and given as gifts to other clergy members or sold to collectors to enjoy?
Audubon plates of birds aren't removed from original massive collations to be framed and hung on walls to be enjoyed by the many?
Massive 12 chair dining sets aren't broken up among family members so that more can enjoy their grace?
Cars aren't cannibalized so that 'original' parts can be put frankenstein style into other survivors to keep that new amalgam on the road?
How come sports cards that are never originally meant to be inked over but that collectors get signed haven't been 'ruined' and desecrated?
That can't be undone either.

Mate, it's only 'stuff'. Things that break down molecule by molecule over time just like our own bodies and should be enjoyed by as many people as possible. These memorabilia cards haven't been destroyed, or removed from existence the pieces used to create them, but have simply transformed their form so that many more people can be connected to them.
And often, in my opinion, the resultant cards become works of art that are every bit as special to behold:



Or maybe you just wanna sit around in you lounge room in a mothball smelling jersey Earl Averill wore just for kicks?

And you want the bat cut up because....

You don't like the idea that one person could own it?
Or that someone has that much money?

Have you ever been around one? Not as some little sliver of Ash, but as a whole bat? Ruths bats are really pretty big.
Come to think of it have you had a chance to actually handle an older major league bat? I'm not sure why, but most of the ones I've held from the bigger sluggers seemed to swing better than a smaller store model bat.

Even if that experience becomes less common, I wouldn't like to exclude it as a possibility for future generations. And with proper care, wood can last a LONG time. Most of King Tuts stuff looked very usable, and that's over 3000 years old. Wool too.


While you may like those cards, aesthetically my opinion is.... different, lets just leave it there.