The Superiority of SGC

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It may not be worth much given the CJ Jackson and the Leaf Jackie and others that are coming out of the woodwork. At the end of the day, I don't think anyone is going to look great among the TPGs.

I don't believe either of those were trimmed. I think it's a lot tougher for a grader to spot cards which were cleaned than cards which were hacked to pieces, like all the cards that got past PSA and Beckett.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I don't believe either of those were trimmed. I think it's a lot tougher for a grader to spot cards which were cleaned than cards which were hacked to pieces, like all the cards that got past PSA and Beckett.

Perhaps so as a general matter, and maybe the scans/pics weren't true reflections of the cards, but the color on the Jackson looked quite off and the Jackie was too white, even without the before photos. The Jackson also had a crease taken out, or are we now excusing failure to catch those too?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Perhaps so as a general matter, and maybe the scans/pics weren't true reflections of the cards, but the color on the Jackson looked quite off and the Jackie was too white, even without the before photos. The Jackson also had a crease taken out, or are we now excusing failure to catch those too.

We're not excusing anything. You claimed that SGC was as bad as PSA based on the Leaf Robinson and the CJ Jackson which both got by SGC. Ask any grader and they'll tell you that a card that is bleached is much tougher to spot than a card that is missing a border. Neither of the Robinson or Jackson were trimmed, just cleaned. Much harder to spot.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We're not excusing anything. You claimed that SGC was as bad as PSA based on the Leaf Robinson and the CJ Jackson which both got by SGC. Ask any grader and they'll tell you that a card that is bleached is much tougher to spot than a card that is missing a border. Neither of the Robinson or Jackson were trimmed, just cleaned. Much harder to spot.

I used those as examples of what I thought was likely to be the conclusion at the end of the day when as many bad cards as can be identified from before and afters are on the table. But to your point, aren't we trusting and paying these TPGs to spot the difficult to find alterations as well as the easy ones?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I used those as examples of what I thought was likely to be the conclusion at the end of the day when as many bad cards as can be identified from before and afters are on the table. But to your point, aren't we trusting and paying these TPGs to spot the difficult to find alterations as well as the easy ones?

Of course. But I think considering the circumstances we should make the best of an imperfect situation. And there really is no test which can discern whether a card is cleaned or not usually. Not surprisingly, therefore, most collectors aren't as offended by a cleaning as they are by a trim job. That PSA routinely can't spot the most obvious trimming and SGC seems to do much better in this area should be appreciated.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Of course. But I think considering the circumstances we should make the best of an imperfect situation. And there really is no test which can discern whether a card is cleaned or not usually. Not surprisingly, therefore, most collectors aren't as offended by a cleaning as they are by a trim job. That PSA routinely can't spot the most obvious trimming and SGC seems to do much better in this area should be appreciated.

If toxic chemicals were used I'm not so sure about that. And again, a crease was also removed. But to find common ground here it's astounding that some of these trim jobs are getting past PSA, just tonight another series of mini Leafs have been identified.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If toxic chemicals were used I'm not so sure about that. And again, a crease was also removed. But to find common ground here it's astounding that some of these trim jobs are getting past PSA, just tonight a series of mini Leafs have been identified.

From what I've been told the chemicals used to clean a card (peroxide, etc.) don't leave a smell.

And yeah, the trimming is insane that they aren't spotting. All those times when you look at a Heritage auction and see high graded cards that you think have funny borders? They're ALL trimmed. Not some -- all.