1914 CJ Joe Jackson PSA 2 to SGC 5

[darwinbulldog]

The population of slabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and (reasonably) well-doctored cards.

The population of unslabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and poorly doctored cards.

So it seems, as long as you're at least as good at detecting alterations as the graders are, as seems to apply to an increasingly large proportion of Net54 members, that it's safer to buy raw since the altered ones will be fairly obvious.

[Bicem]

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

This is a good and relatively long-term solution. Maybe 25 years from now the counterfeits will be indistinguishable from the originals, but in the meantime we can still have fun.

[Scott L.]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

I love this idea. Will probably never happen but I for one would be fully on board.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Scott L.

I love this idea. Will probably never happen but I for one would be fully on board.

I think David Hall rightly understood on day 1 the market potential for grading not just authenticating. And ironically, they may be better at grading than authenticating at this point.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think David Hall rightly understood on day 1 the market potential for grading not just authenticating. And ironically, they may be better at grading than authenticating at this point.

Even if just assigning an Authentic or not opinion without regard to alteration? At least this way people can be more reassured of not buying reprints.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Even if just assigning an Authentic or not opinion without regard to alteration? At least this way people can be more reassured of not buying reprints.

Fair enough, I haven't seen any evidence that they're regularly being fooled by counterfeits, but as has been alluded to, that day may be coming too.

As an aside I get it, but authentic and altered always sounded like an oxymoron to me.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Even if just assigning an Authentic or not opinion without regard to alteration? At least this way people can be more reassured of not buying reprints.

because basic logic dictates: they are altered, therefore they are fake

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

because basic logic dictates: they are altered, therefore they are fake

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

They're no dummies though. They have set up their products for obsolescence and subsequent resubmissions any number of times. If I were a betting man I would bet the announcement of photo grading isn't that far in the future.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Graders should just move to a system where it's slabbed as authentic or it's rejected as a fake. Buyers can then just decide on their own how much to pay for the condition/presentation of the card without the grading company opinion on that aspect.

You should then see the huge price gaps for condition fall and the card doctors much less motivated.

I know it's a completely different collecting mindset, but one that can be just as rewarding and enjoyable. In the PSA slabbed photo world, photo type is identified but no mention of condition, alterations, etc. and photo collectors do not put large premiums on condition. Just look at the most expensive photo (to my knowledge) that's sold thus far...

Cobb

Jeff, not a bad idea...but I'd submit to you, how about these levels...

-Authentic (unaltered)
-Authentic (altered)
-Rejected (fake)

[Scott L.]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Jeff, not a bad idea...but I'd submit to you, how about these levels...

-Authentic (unaltered)
-Authentic (altered)
-Rejected (fake)

Michael I was thinking the same thing with the Auth alt/unalt but how could we trust them to be able to discern that with all that’s going on.

[ullmandds]

i agree I like the 3 possibilities...but I also have little faith that they can determine.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i agree I like the 3 possibilities...but I also have little faith that they can determine.

Three possibilities means no Registry and less money. Not happening.

[1952boyntoncollector]

So what is the recourse. SGC should pay 60k back to the buyer? You guys tell me what should happen as apparently this is going on right now..

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Three possibilities means no Registry and less money. Not happening.

Yeah, only works if collectors give up all that nonsense and stop playing ball, really force PSA's hand.

And only Authentic or not, no faith in ability to detect alterations.

Won't happen, but this is a grading system I could get behind.

[topcat61]

Well, if this card was bleached, a simple test under a black light will be able to pick it up. If that's the case, the grading company (SGC) and or both are in trouble. If I was the buyer, I'd contact a lawyer and the FBI.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

The population of slabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and (reasonably) well-doctored cards.

The population of unslabbed cards is a combination of clean cards and poorly doctored cards.

So it seems, as long as you're at least as good at detecting alterations as the graders are, as seems to apply to an increasingly large proportion of Net54 members, that it's safer to buy raw since the altered ones will be fairly obvious.

Maybe I can sneak some of these past the TPG's. I guess I have been ahead of this grading curve for decades.

Brian