1914 CJ Joe Jackson PSA 2 to SGC 5

[Republicaninmass]

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

[swarmee]

Ah, the dam will break; they just don't believe it yet. They're at some earlier stage of the grieving process.

And some will have already gotten their refunds, and the ones that hold out the longest risk losing it. This is why PSA and SGC and BGS need to decertify all of those altered cards in holders. Collectors will clutch them to their bosom and never let them go without it.

[Batpig]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

That’s probably the root of anyone denying this right now. They either have a large legal or financial liability (or both).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

It doesn't bother me that people want to make sure the cards are the same, I think it's fair. The only thing that would bother me is continued denial in the face of the evidence.

It's interesting that of all the cards outed on Blowout so far, I don't think there's been a single instance when someone came forward and said he still owned the "pre" card.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It doesn't bother me that people want to make sure the cards are the same, I think it's fair. The only thing that would bother me is continued denial in the face of the evidence.

It's interesting that of all the cards outed on Blowout so far, I don't think there's been a single instance when someone came forward and said he still owned the "pre" card.

Absolutely agree with your second sentence the continued denial in the face of evidence is bothersome. I get people have big cards in their holders but come on how are these guys, the graders this bad at their jobs?? Sometime smells bad real bad.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The constant questioning and denial of some leave me to wonder how many PWCC cards they are sitting on.

I only have a few of what some would consider high end cards. They were all bought privately except for an REA win, the only one I've ever won there. I have bid on quite a few pwcc cards over the years, but only won 4 or 5.

I have mentioned before I use PWCC for all of my consignments. There's always an auction running, they get the highest prices, and have the lowest fees. I am still not convinced yet at their level of involvement in this scandal, and think it's very possible card doctors use their service for the same reasons I do.

[orly57]

I know that there are a lot of guys who have some amazing ungraded cards. But isn’t it fair to say that if you are a TPG receiving a really nice 1914 Joe Jackson at this stage in the game, there is a 90% chance that the card has already been graded before, and the owner wasn’t happy with the grade and/or altered it? Wouldn’t they look at a card like that a bit more skeptically, and assume that at best, the owner wasn’t happy with the previous grade and broke open for a regrade? If I see a raw 1914 CJ JJ at a show, I can tell you that my first thought would be “no thanks. You either got an ‘A’ or the card presents much better than the grade you got and didn’t like.”

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by orly57

I know that there are a lot of guys who have some amazing ungraded cards. But isn’t it fair to say that if you are a TPG receiving a really nice 1914 Joe Jackson at this stage in the game, there is a 90% chance that the card has already been graded before, and the owner wasn’t happy with the grade and/or altered it? Wouldn’t they look at a card like that a bit more skeptically, and assume that at best, the owner wasn’t happy with the previous grade and broke open for a regrade? If I see a raw 1914 CJ JJ at a show, I can tell you that my first thought would be “no thanks. You either got an ‘A’ or the card presents much better than the grade you got and didn’t like.”

+1000! When a 1914 CJ Joe Jackson comes, especially a pretty one in the year 2019, this card should get the attention of multiple and the best graders the TPG has to offer. If not for the reasons Orlando stated, how about the fact that it costs a small shit-ton to grade a card like this and the submitter paid for the right to have the best eyes on the card. Honestly, it’s robbery or negligence or both (in the lay sense), that a card of this ilk, costing so much to grade, gets through SGC and a guy on blowout forum catches it.

SGC, you messed up REAL bad here, and proves all this is less likely TPG fraud than just utter and total incompetence

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

+1000! When a 1914 CJ Joe Jackson comes, especially a pretty one in the year 2019, this card should get the attention of multiple and the best graders the TPG has to offer. If not for the reasons Orlando stated, how about the fact that it costs a small shit-ton to grade a card like this and the submitter paid for the right to have the best eyes on the card. Honestly, it’s robbery or negligence or both (in the lay sense), that a card of this ilk, costing so much to grade, gets through SGC and a guy on blowout forum catches it.

SGC, you messed up REAL bad here, and proves all this is less likely TPG fraud than just utter and total incompetence

The listing said the card was graded at last year's national. I'm sure every SGC employee at the show saw the card. So either they chose to ignore any signs the card was altered, the alteration was done so well as to not leave a detectable trace behind using whatever method they use, or it's not the same card.

My guess, assuming it is the same card, is that whatever is being done to these cards isn't leaving much behind to detect.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The listing said the card was graded at last year's national. I'm sure every SGC employee at the show saw the card. So either they chose to ignore any signs the card was altered, the alteration was done so well as to not leave a detectable trace behind using whatever method they use, or it's not the same card.

My guess, assuming it is the same card, is that whatever is being done to these cards isn't leaving much behind to detect.

Maybe, although I'm guessing that card -- given the disparity in values these days between holders -- made a trip to PSA first.

[Bored5000]

That Shoeless Joe card was a $22,000 card before work was done on it -- and posters in the Musial thread on here were seriously trying to claim that no one would have the balls to alter a $3,000 card?

[Arazi4442]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

SGC, you messed up REAL bad here, and proves all this is less likely TPG fraud than just utter and total incompetence

Pretty sad state when it feels like this is the best-case outcome for thr TPGs.

"Hey, look at us, we're not complicit, just completely incompetent."