Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Joe Gordon -- is he in if his whole career was in Cleveland? I doubt it. Lazzeri?

I always pulled for Gordon. He was, at least according to Bill James, defensively great last I looked. Allegedly had real good range. I didn't see him play and don't know. Who are the great 2B's in the HOF? Lajoie, Collins, Frisch, Hornsby, Gehringer, Robinson, Morgan. Biggio and Carew for part of their careers. Alomar? Maz was defensively the best as I understand it.

Pretty small group. I don't have a problem with McPhee, Herman, Lazzeri, Gordon, Doerr, Schoendienst, Fox, or Sandberg. Evers I question.

Buddy Myers was pretty much a Herman clone. Jeff Kent was pretty good, at least offensively, for a while. He gets no love. I could maybe see Whitaker. I loved Frank White, but he has no chance. Randolph either IMO. Who else?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I always pulled for Gordon. He was, at least according to Bill James, defensively great last I looked. Allegedly had real good range. I didn't see him play and don't know. Who are the great 2B's in the HOF? Lajoie, Collins, Frisch, Hornsby, Gehringer, Robinson, Morgan. Biggio and Carew for part of their careers. Alomar? Maz was defensively the best as I understand it.

Pretty small group. I don't have a problem with McPhee, Herman, Lazzeri, Gordon, Doerr, Schoendienst, Fox, or Sandberg. Evers I question.

Buddy Myers was pretty much a Herman clone. Jeff Kent was pretty good, at least offensively, for a while. He gets no love. I could maybe see Whitaker. I loved Frank White, but he has no chance. Randolph either IMO. Who else?

I think you hit everyone I can think of. Current players you have Cano, Utley, Pedroia in similar territory I think.
Oh, you forgot Grich. He ranks very high with the metrics, top 10.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I always pulled for Gordon. He was, at least according to Bill James, defensively great last I looked.

My problem with Gordon is I don't see him as particularly superior to Vern Stephens, who played all around the infield instead of just at 2nd, but if one is in the other belongs.

Just double checked and he only played short and third, mainly short, so a middle infielder but not a 2b.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

My problem with Gordon is I don't see him as particularly superior to Vern Stephens, who played all around the infield instead of just at 2nd, but if one is in the other belongs.

Just double checked and he only played short and third, mainly short, so a middle infielder but not a 2b.

Vern Stephens is vastly underrated IMO. I could very much support him because he was offensively a massive player in the '50s. How many SS's have led the league in HR's or RBi's? Banks, Wagner, George Davis (dunno how much SS he played that year) and Dahlen are who I can think of that did one or the other. It could easily be argued that he was the best shortstop of the late '40 to mid '50s, but no one even knows who he is now, which is beyond pathetic. He got a nod for the Veteran's Committee once, I believe, and that was it. He was a force back then and it is really too bad he gets no love. I have, I think, all of his mainstream cards because I'm a fan.