Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

but you don't choose the HOF on one at bat you choose it on a body of work.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

but you don't choose the HOF on one at bat you choose it on a body of work.

So....Randolph and Mattingly are the exact same age, you can get either one of them for the same price. You dont need any positional needs, so you are simply going with the player.....Who do you take?

[CMIZ5290]

Mattingley.....307 career batting average, Randolph, .274....Why are we even discussing this?

[packs]

Give me a break. Randolph never had a season like Mattingly did in 1986 and that's not even the season he won the MVP. The distance between them is huge in my opinion. If not for his injuries, Mattingly would be the guy everyone compared Pujols to.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by packs

Give me a break. Randolph never had a season like Mattingly did in 1986 and that's not even the season he won the MVP. The distance between them is huge in my opinion. If not for his injuries, Mattingly would be the guy everyone compared Pujols to.

Yes....People need to realize that there are many variables to being elected to the HOF. Mattingly had them all...Including being a great team leader. Players, coaches loved him. To compare this guy to Willie Randolph is a disgrace, Willie Randolph is in more company with Mickey Rivers than Mattingly

[Peter_Spaeth]

It seems Mattingly and Garvey are the two players with the biggest gap between perception and the metrics. They really cream Joe Carter too.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If I had to take one for the career they had (not the one they should've had if, but etc.) I take Randolph. But then I'd rather win than look good.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If I had to take one for the career they had (not the one they should've had if, but etc.) I take Randolph. But then I'd rather win than look good.

Wow, I give up!

[Orioles1954]

Mattingly had 6 wonderful years for a crap ball club. If he played for the Royals we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. 6 years...

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It seems Mattingly and Garvey are the two players with the biggest gap between perception and the metrics. They really cream Joe Carter too.

Surely you're not comparing Mattingly with Garvey are you? And don't call me surely!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Surely you're not comparing Mattingly with Garvey are you? And don't call me surely!

Garvey had 200 hits what, 6 times? 10 time all star. .294 BA. MVP and a 2nd place. 4 Gold Gloves. The metrics HATE him. BR ranks him 51st at 1B.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Garvey had 200 hits what, 6 times? 10 time all star. .294 BA. MVP and a 2nd place. 4 Gold Gloves. The metrics HATE him. BR ranks him 51st at 1B.

Pete, not disgracing Garvey, only trying to heighten how good Mattingly was....Having said that, who would you rather have at identical ages?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Willie Randolph is worth MUCH more as a second baseman as opposed to his contemporaries than Mattingly was as a first baseman compared to his. If Mattingly is easier to replace, than Randolph is obviously the better value. If Mattingly's whole career was like those 6 years it would be a different story, but unless your name is Koufax 6 years ain't enough to get you into the hall. Mattingly was barely a replacement level player the remainder of his career.

I'm not some kid (I'm sneaking up on 50) who thinks metrics are the only thing that counts. However there are baseball people a lot smarter than me who have certainly demonstrated that you ignore them at your peril if you want to win baseball games.

That being said you don't have to go deep into esoteric stats to understand that the value of Randolph's career is greater than that of Mattingly's. Randolph helped his team for almost the entirety of an 18 year career. Mattingly was a dead average producer at 1b except for that 6 year peak

We belong to two groups who will just never agree on these things, so I guess I'll give up too. After I snarkily point out that I have lots of company in the front offices of major league baseball teams that win.