Is CC Sabathia a Hall of Famer?

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Willie Randolph. The obvious one, Mattingly.

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

What about Munson or Maris?

None of these. And if I could, I would kick out a dozen of the marginal players that keep guys like Mattingly in the conversation. He was good, he wasn't great. Just good isn't good enough for even the Hall of Very Good.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by bounce

None of these. And if I could, I would kick out a dozen of the marginal players that keep guys like Mattingly in the conversation. He was good, he wasn't great. Just good isn't good enough for even the Hall of Very Good.

I posted Munson & Maris to counter the mindset that if any player wore the pinstripes he has an edge to Cooperstown.
There are alot of marginal Yankees that aren't in & have no advantage because they played in the Bronx.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

I posted Munson & Maris to counter the mindset that if any player wore the pinstripes he has an edge to Cooperstown.
There are alot of marginal Yankees that aren't in & have no advantage because they played in the Bronx.

Does Rizzuto get in playing for Phila/KC, or the Browns/Orioles?

Is Munson even in the conversation if he played for Cleveland or Detroit?

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Does Rizzuto get in playing for Phila/KC, or the Browns/Orioles?

I always suspected that Rizzuto got in because Pee Wee Reese was already in.
Rizzuto had a higher BA & won an MVP & was every bit the contemporary.
Would Reese be in if he played w/ the Phillies, Indian's or A's?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

I always suspected that Rizzuto got in because Pee Wee Reese was already in.
Rizzuto had a higher BA & won an MVP & was every bit the contemporary.
Would Reese be in if he played w/ the Phillies, Indian's or A's?

I never saw either play, but statistically there is no comparison. Reese was far better than Rizzuto in almost every respect, while Rizzuto played for a more dominant team. I don't think that particular comparison is even very close.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Joe Gordon -- is he in if his whole career was in Cleveland? I doubt it. Lazzeri?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Joe Gordon -- is he in if his whole career was in Cleveland? I doubt it. Lazzeri?

I always pulled for Gordon. He was, at least according to Bill James, defensively great last I looked. Allegedly had real good range. I didn't see him play and don't know. Who are the great 2B's in the HOF? Lajoie, Collins, Frisch, Hornsby, Gehringer, Robinson, Morgan. Biggio and Carew for part of their careers. Alomar? Maz was defensively the best as I understand it.

Pretty small group. I don't have a problem with McPhee, Herman, Lazzeri, Gordon, Doerr, Schoendienst, Fox, or Sandberg. Evers I question.

Buddy Myers was pretty much a Herman clone. Jeff Kent was pretty good, at least offensively, for a while. He gets no love. I could maybe see Whitaker. I loved Frank White, but he has no chance. Randolph either IMO. Who else?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

I always suspected that Rizzuto got in because Pee Wee Reese was already in.
Rizzuto had a higher BA & won an MVP & was every bit the contemporary.
Would Reese be in if he played w/ the Phillies, Indian's or A's?

Rizzuto couldn't hold Pee Wee's Jock. He was the third best NY Short Stop, just Alvin Dark didn't play his whole career with the Giants.

[lowpopper]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Rizzuto couldn't hold Pee Wee's Jock.

What a quote! lol

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Rizzuto couldn't hold Pee Wee's Jock. He was the third best NY Short Stop, just Alvin Dark didn't play his whole career with the Giants.

Career stats of the two are very similar. Rizzuto won three major awards and was second in MVP voting once. Reese won no major awards. Also, Phil had just a few more championship rings. However, I see them both as borderline HOFers at best.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Career stats of the two are very similar. Rizzuto won three major awards and was second in MVP voting once. Reese won no major awards. Also, Phil had just a few more championship rings. However, I see them both as borderline HOFers at best.

Reese: WAR - 66.3; AB- 8058; H- 2178; Hr - 126; BA - .269; R - 1338; RBI - 885; SB - 232; OBP - .366; SLG - .377; OPS - .743. 10 AS games.

Rizzuto: WAR - 40.8; AB - 5816; H - 1588; HR - 38; BA - .273; R - 873; RBI - 563; SB - 149; OBP - .351; SLG - .355; OPS - .706. 5 AS games.

Both were leaders. No dispute about that. Both lost 3 years to WWII. And I have no problem with either of them being in. But in a blind taste test, which one do you take? IMO, that's an easy call and it isn't the Scooter.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Career stats of the two are very similar. Rizzuto won three major awards and was second in MVP voting once. Reese won no major awards. Also, Phil had just a few more championship rings. However, I see them both as borderline HOFers at best.

never mind, Kenny Cole said the same thing.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Rizzuto couldn't hold Pee Wee's Jock.

Maybe, but he did play a major role in arguably the greatest rock & roll song of all time!


Steve

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hall of Stats says Reese 120 (100 is HOF worthy), Rizzuto 77.