PSA/BGS/PWCC dispute or refund thread

[bounce]

Originally Posted by AddieJoss

On Monday I received an 8k refund from PWCC for 7 cards I returned. 3 were clearly altered (only because I found before photos) and the other 4 were on a list out there but I couldn’t find the evidence myself.

Cory Weiser

Can you still bid or did you get banned? Wondering if the previous person who said that happened to them was a one off, or ongoing issue for requesting returns.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Does anyone have any dealings to report here?

[Johnny630]

No responsibility for any card doctor, they won’t be held responsible. GM is like F them Prove it I got it in a PSA Holder so up yours....you can’t touch me....nobody in the past who got caught doctoring cards has ever been charged or held criminally responsible...these guys will continue to get around this using surrogates to submit and auction houses will only take cards in holders from people with no bad history in other words doctors will have other people submit the cards to the AH for them....the cycle will continue

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

No responsibility for any card doctor, they won’t be held responsible. GM is like F them Prove it I got it in a PSA Holder so up yours....you can’t touch me....nobody in the past who got caught doctoring cards has ever been charged or held criminally responsible...these guys will continue to get around this using surrogates to submit and auction houses will only take cards in holders from people with no bad history in other words doctors will have other people submit the cards to the AH for them....the cycle will continue

nice to see people getting their money back. They cycle may continue but will be not as big as I would assume PSA paying out thousands will make them more observant for future grading...

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Does anyone have any dealings to report here?

Sadly, most collectors who've been taken to the cleaners and victimized don't even know it (and likely never will).

It is a relatively small percentage of collectors who frequent these boards, and unless the word gets out to a mass audience, the "Bad Actor Facilitators" (meaning PSA and PWCC) are largely off the hook.

Perhaps word will spread a bit further in Chicago, the first week of August.

[swarmee]

Uffdah responded on blowout that he has been reimbursed by PWCC for his PSA 10 Musial and additional ones that were fingered.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Uffdah responded on blowout that he has been reimbursed by PWCC for his PSA 10 Musial and additional ones that were fingered.

If he would have sued he could have gotten paid back last week. What a sucker.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If he would have sued he could have gotten paid back last week. What a sucker.

right no lawsuits needed, everything is working out great.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Sadly, most collectors who've been taken to the cleaners and victimized don't even know it (and likely never will).

It is a relatively small percentage of collectors who frequent these boards, and unless the word gets out to a mass audience, the "Bad Actor Facilitators" (meaning PSA and PWCC) are largely off the hook.

Perhaps word will spread a bit further in Chicago, the first week of August.

I think if PSA /pwcc sent an email to all prior submitters buyers and told them about this issue and to submit that would get them off the hook when a buyer later 'learns' of the issue years later, perhaps when a wronged buyer submits to an auction house 4 years from now (and first learns of the issue) the statute of limitations being argued as a defense if the required times passes i would think would indeed get them off the hook

The defense may work either way but its more solid PSA/PWCC and the like just notified everyone to look at their tainted cards potentially.

Yes more claims will be submitted as well so there is risk/reward. But it appears even if the card market tanks, everyone will be paid fairly years from now and everyone will agree what their damages are from a sale the past 2 or 3 years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Any more refunds, or refusals, to report?

[jhs5120]

Honest question, doesn't this whole fiasco elevate PSA further above other third-party graders?

It's pretty clear that BGS/BVG, SGC and PSA are all having difficult times detecting altered cards. If I'm not mistaken, only PSA will make you whole for their mistakes.

Has any refund been issued by SGC or Beckett?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Honest question, doesn't this whole fiasco elevate PSA further above other third-party graders?

It's pretty clear that BGS/BVG, SGC and PSA are all having difficult times detecting altered cards. If I'm not mistaken, only PSA will make you whole for their mistakes.

Has any refund been issued by SGC or Beckett?

Have we actually seen evidence of PSA paying out anything yet? Their “official statement” directed people to get refunds from the seller (not from PSA).

PWCC has, on several occasions now, issued refunds on altered PSA cards. But I have yet to see where PSA has actually paid out a penny. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.

Furthermore, most of the exposed cards are residing in PSA holders. So I fail to see the purported “elevation” of PSA over and above anyone else. They’re all flawed in different ways. But they’re all equal in terms of happily accepting money for a service that most of us could perform far better for free.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Does anyone have any dealings to report here?

apparently none.

[Stonepony]

A couple months ago I received an unsolicited email from PWCC that they suspected a 1969 PSA 9 Clemente I had won the year prior might be altered. I sent it to them and a week later i received a check for the full auction price. Nothing to sign etc. Brief communication and refund.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

A couple months ago I received an unsolicited email from PWCC that they suspected a 1969 PSA 9 Clemente I had won the year prior might be altered. I sent it to them and a week later a received a check for the full auction price. Nothing to sign etc. Brief communication and refund.

great to hear and to see people are free to share info without restriction..

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

A couple months ago I received an unsolicited email from PWCC that they suspected a 1969 PSA 9 Clemente I had won the year prior might be altered. I sent it to them and a week later i received a check for the full auction price. Nothing to sign etc. Brief communication and refund.

Well done on their behalf.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Let's hold off on congratulating the crooks for covering their asses...

Likely on the advice of counsel.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Let's hold off on congratulating the crooks for covering their asses...

Likely on the advice of counsel.

They’re no saints...this is the right thing to do....it’s damage control mitigation

My only hope is some great lawyering throws this back onto PSA and or the other TPG’s

Excited for your auction tonight, I’ll be bidding/watching.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Let's hold off on congratulating the crooks for covering their asses...

Likely on the advice of counsel.

Whatever the motivation, and I am completely cynical about that, it's better than the nothing that most industry players apparently are doing.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

A couple months ago I received an unsolicited email from PWCC that they suspected a 1969 PSA 9 Clemente I had won the year prior might be altered. I sent it to them and a week later i received a check for the full auction price. Nothing to sign etc. Brief communication and refund.

As sleazy as they are, at least PWCC is acknowledging the issue and proactively offering full compensation. Even if it's solely due to legal advice, at least it's something.

Lots better than the head-in-the-sand experts, PSA, who does nothing proactively (or reactively, for that matter).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

As sleazy as they are, at least PWCC is acknowledging the issue and proactively offering full compensation. Even if it's solely due to legal advice, at least it's something.

Lots better than the head-in-the-sand experts, PSA, who does nothing proactively (or reactively, for that matter).

Now now, Steve Sloan just this hour sent a very nice letter that I posted on the other thread.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Now now, Steve Sloan just this hour sent a very nice letter that I posted on the other thread.

Yes, very nice letter...

It gives you that great warm fuzzy feeling, just in time for the holidays. Reading it was a true "Hallmark Moment" for me.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Now now, Steve Sloan just this hour sent a very nice letter that I posted on the other thread.

Unbelievably un-woke. Everyone just stick your head in the sand . Nothing to see here. Move on sheeple.

Worst email since Joe O sent his. Appallingly disingenuous .

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by perezfan

As sleazy as they are, at least PWCC is acknowledging the issue and proactively offering full compensation. Even if it's solely due to legal advice, at least it's something.

Lots better than the head-in-the-sand experts, PSA, who does nothing proactively (or reactively, for that matter).

Psa may be too big to fail...apparently PWCC is not!!